[Glice]

Lots of things will also happen regardless. Are you considering them? Have you considered communicating solely by screaming into soiled potties?

[ni'k]

no, but i don't inhabit your depraved catholic fantasies, as i'm in my 20's.

and is the suggestion i was "screaming" really what you are going to go with...

so everything i said in my last post you didn't respond to was correct then.

[ni'k]

that's debatable. i can't tell you if its correct but i would suspect its the other way round.

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by knox

You are not considered the moral debate of taking away someone's right to reproduce (personal "freedom").

One thing is allow science to evolve and research ( people to do whatever they want in that sense) another thing is to give the government the right to determine who's good enough to "reproduce" and who's not. It's really twisted if you think about it and not much different from most fascist ideas - some people are "superior" and we determine who they are, other people are "inferior" and we opress them and control their reproduction.

When you say this idea would work in "troublesome areas" you're pretty much saying the richer would get away with it and the poorer would be the victims.

We're also living in a world in which the great majority of the population (the poorer) have no access to education, birth control or even the idea that there could be any other objective in life.

I agree with Nefeli, education is key, people need choices, not more control.

Well, if you actually read my longer reply to Nefeli you could see with your own eyes that I made this comment:

''In a way, what I mean is that it wouldn't be a ''punishing'' tactic couples would be stamped on with for the rest of their lives, more a monitoring of their well-being in order for them to reproduce at the best of their capabilities. ''

That doesn't imply that couples would have their right to reproduce taken away from them at all, more their motivations would be more closely monitored. And I don't even think technically you could impose anything like that on the population at large unless we refer again to sci-fi, apocalyptic, barbaric scenarios, which are nothing I was on about at all.

The comment about the rich/poor doesn't imply I am saying anything other than what I said either, the ''troublesome areas'' I refered to weren't meant to be anything other than certain geographical spots. Bad parenting affects the rich and the poor, and more importantly, it also affects the richer in between the two sides, which as you might know has the potential of seeing their wealth shrink due to violent shakes in the economy like everyone else, and ultimately doesn't differ all that much from their poorer counterparts when it comes to certain social behaviours. To suggest that all rich people defy all laws seems also too limited thinking to me.

About the rest - Let's put it this way, if you look at history nothing establishes itself with 100% peacefulness and consideration for all the parties involved, sometimes certain ideas even create mis-balancing within sections of an established majority. All methods of imposing benign or malign rules in society and its structuring have an element that you could define, to use a popular term with the liberal crowd, as ''fascistic''.

Can't write more now because I'm at work. brb

[ni'k]

slavery is not nearing its end whatsoever.

this is a capitalist illusion.

[ni'k]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

I'm jumpin in on the addiction topic as we all know I have a bit of a problem in this area. It is a refusal to quit, but that refusal to quit is directly caused by the substance not only the person. Unless someone TRULY (and I mean you panic can't live without it will do almost anything to get it cant stop thinking about it act out violently when without it physically withdrawl from it) has been addicted to something there is no way they can even fathom what giving up an addiction is, how it feels, how that person feels. It not as easy as just quiting like ppl say. If it was than the world would not have such a huge problem with addiction. It is not ONLY psychlogical it is physical. Your body's chemistry is altered after being addicted to something. Any addiction is a chronic illness. Nicotine is very addictive even more so than most illicit drugs.

what you, knox and millions others refuse to face is that you author your own actions, and that each act of consuming one of your addictions is a choice that you make and that you and noone else has control over. unless you face this fact, you cannot chose to do otherwise and quit. you are making excuses "its hard" "you have no idea what it feels like" etc. this is all irrelevant if you actually choose to quit.

it is irrelevant that it is "hard", as i've said in my earlier posts, this is what people experience when they have no intention of actually quitting and are just waiting to give in again.

and your logic is flawed when you say "if it was as easy as people would say there would be no addiction problem." people also say how hard it is and wildly exaggerate this aswell. the point is all addiction is irrelevant. you either quit or you don't. if you don't it is your choice.

nicotine is actually one of the least physically addictive substances. i know this is not common wisdom but it is fact. the addiction is purely psychological. there is hard scientific evidence to back this up. it less the nicotine, more the physiological changes in smoking and the dopamine hit it releases. but even these are very very mild when compared to something heroin.

the reason people experience smoking as such a "hard addiction" is because they are psychologically conditioned to expect it to this way.

what you say about the substance controlling the decision. well then perhaps we can agree that the act of quitting is when the person chooses to author their own decision to quit in spite of any pull from the traces of dopamineric rewiring that the substance has caused in their brain.

and actually - this finally lets me make the point i've been trying to make all along. that DESPITE a counter point to this being "oh, but surely then there are times we can say that it wasn't physically possible for the person to quit because their brain simply could not allow them, or overpower their cravings" - i can make the retort " but if the addicted person accepts this as possible, they will never successfully quit. and that this statement is only accurate as a description in hindsight that forecloses the possibility of agency when we can instead say that the person chose to not make the decision to quit."

because you cannot tell me that you are unable to quit, only that you are choosing not to. because if you say you are unable to then you can not know that for sure unless you have already decided not to quit ever. and that is my point, that noone can quit unless they chose to, and that those who aren't quitting chose not to.

allowing me to finally to put my tired contributions to this subject to rest. FINALLY. can't say anymore than that and am sick of trying.

[space]

hey, didn't you start smoking again?

lulz

[ni'k]

and quit

[DeadDiscoDildo]

Originally Posted by knox

so you were a smoker and you quit?

i'm asking because I have friends who found it easier to quit crack and cocaine.

lol.

http://www.medindia.net/news/Ozzy-Fo...it-21834-1.htm

I'm a smoker who quit too.

boo hoo.

and smoking GAVE me asthma.

[DeadDiscoDildo]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

If I was pregnant with you I'd dump you in a bin liner and give you to a charity shop.

Why are you such a cunt? I guess that's up to science to figure out when you die.

Good thing you'll never have your own child.

No, your little sex slaveboy doesn't count.

[ni'k]

who is his sex slave boy again?

is it supposed to be me?

because i can tell you that i'd happily leave my self dead in a bin liner on the steps of a charity shop if it meant ridding the world of your music.

but then again i'm melodramatic like that.

[DeadDiscoDildo]

No not you, but then again, might as well be.

Bringing up my music again eh? You wish you were half as talented as me.

You probably have no fucking skills at all, probably why you hate the world and are so nihilistic.

[ni'k]

yes that's definitely it.

your music represents the world.

i would love myself and the world if i only could sing those "whoa ah oh's" as well as you do.

if only my speech sounded slightly lo fi and muddled in real life.

if i had even a quarter of your talent i'd still be on the wrong track tho. i'd still be an indie musician. would lose the will to live.

i like how you can quantify it tho. it shows how its not just a figment of your imagination.

[knox]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Well, if you actually read my longer reply to Nefeli you could see with your own eyes that I made this comment:

''In a way, what I mean is that it wouldn't be a ''punishing'' tactic couples would be stamped on with for the rest of their lives, more a monitoring of their well-being in order for them to reproduce at the best of their capabilities. ''

That doesn't imply that couples would have their right to reproduce taken away from them at all, more their motivations would be more closely monitored. And I don't even think technically you could impose anything like that on the population at large unless we refer again to sci-fi, apocalyptic, barbaric scenarios, which are nothing I was on about at all.

The comment about the rich/poor doesn't imply I am saying anything other than what I said either, the ''troublesome areas'' I refered to weren't meant to be anything other than certain geographical spots. Bad parenting affects the rich and the poor, and more importantly, it also affects the richer in between the two sides, which as you might know has the potential of seeing their wealth shrink due to violent shakes in the economy like everyone else, and ultimately doesn't differ all that much from their poorer counterparts when it comes to certain social behaviours. To suggest that all rich people defy all laws seems also too limited thinking to me.

About the rest - Let's put it this way, if you look at history nothing establishes itself with 100% peacefulness and consideration for all the parties involved, sometimes certain ideas even create mis-balancing within sections of an established majority. All methods of imposing benign or malign rules in society and its structuring have an element that you could define, to use a popular term with the liberal crowd, as ''fascistic''.

Can't write more now because I'm at work. brb

you are basically saying that the idea is doomed to failure.
which is what nefeli said, so i guess we all agree in that sense and there's nothing else to be said about it.

[knox]

actually everything ive ever read mentions how nicotine is one of the hardest substances to quit - thats why they have a nicotine patch market - because your brain will actually go insane with the withdrawal (that's why every doctor suggests cutting down before quitting - your chances or not going back to it are higher) and there are severe symptons (migraines, moodswings, panic, heart racing, insomnia, depression) that can last up to 3 weeks, which is a bit more than other drugs (tho many other drugs have more intense withdrawal effects).

it's been proven that the human being can get physically addicted to pretty much anything, of course that some substances are more addictive than others and people can be genetically more or less prone to addiction.

you don't need to be an expert or a doctor to know that, so whoever goes on and on about it's just "willpower" is just taking the opportunity to feel self-righteous and godknowswhatelse.

[knox]

Originally Posted by DeadDiscoDildo

I'm a smoker who quit too.

boo hoo.

and smoking GAVE me asthma.

well my case was the opposite.
I am allergic and being in contact with the allergen somehow makes me more resilient.

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by DeadDiscoDildo

Why are you such a cunt? I guess that's up to science to figure out when you die.

Good thing you'll never have your own child.

No, your little sex slaveboy doesn't count.

 

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by knox

nothing else to be said about it.

for all it's worth....

[ni'k]

self righteous? what bullshit. i chose to quit. you chose not to. you wish someone was being self righteous so you can blame anyone else but yourself.

altho if self righteous means facing that each time i smoked was a choice and then making the choice to quit then fine, its probably not a bad thing. but its doesnt, its just the word you use to denigrate anyone that dares take responsibility for what they do, because you hate that idea.

no one recognises how "hard" it is for you because noone gives a shit and noone wants to hear you whine. its your choice, either quit or don't, noone can do it for you so whats the point of giving a shit. its noones fault but your own, despite how hard you might want to pin the blame on someone else "not recognising the difficulties." thats just irrelevant to you quitting.

[knox]

like I said, I don't wanna quit - and that's nobody's business.
but then again I don't think you've been smoking for over 15 years.
What do think is lately if you can't find a proper reason to rant, argue and get angry you start digging for one.
Which can be funny at times but...