[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by verme (prevaricator)

no, i don't think there's anything shameful about what i think of women in particular, i'm not sexist. or at least i try not to be.

and no, KNOX, i don't think porn is inherently sexist or degrading, and i certainly do not endorse hidden female sexuality.

BUT,
this is an open forum and there should be some refrain from posting erotic content.
not because it might hurt susceptibilities, but because our porn man big gay rob has a shit taste.

HA!

i kid.
well, some of the nasty skunk you'll occasionaly post - all in good fun, i understand - has indeed caused intense disgust on me.

ha! I am far from the worst offender in regards to nasty gifs and gross pics.

I am alone in SYG in posting beautiful ladies that are not thin white girls.

[knox]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

it means more than one thing. what do YOU mean by objectifying?

We are not talking about sex or sexual fantasies Rob. We were talking about real life in society.

[Rob Instigator]

in real life and in society women are objectified as sexual objects.

How else?

[Genteel Death]

Rob post a video of yourself naked while you expose your views. C'mon my man, I need to check mine too.

[knox]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

in real life and in society women are objectified as sexual objects.

How else?

I doubt you meant that men fantasized about living in a society in which their bodies were seen as mere instruments that belong to others more than to themselves and that would come before anyidea of individual self worth.

[verme (prevaricator)]

Originally Posted by knox

I have never ever said that porn is necessarily sexist or degrading. Dont like general assumptions being made about my opinions either. Also, I never implied women have to hide their sexuality to be taken seriously (tho other people have). I dont agree with that either, so please dont make assumptions.

ok then. sorry.
but you gave me plausibility:

Originally Posted by knox

bombarded with sexist images in any given random thread on Sonic Youth

[!@#$%!]

for knoxter (i'm skipping over the cockfest above):

my post was addressing the complaint that was articulated by porky and glice (not sure in the same vein, but anyway) that people tend to post too much tit and ass in this board and this turns off/offends people as it is seen as objectification of their gender.

my response however was not aimed at social activity and real people-- it was aimed at pictures posted on the internet. the pictures that we post here are usually those of media personalities / porn people who make a business of marketing their genitals for a buck. and we're dealing with pictures-- not real persons.

as a 3rd world person, i grew up consorting with whores since age 15, because "good girls" didn't put out until they were in the university. i was horny, there was an avenue for it, so it was a good 3 years until i finally could have sex with a girl i loved, and then i never looked back. i'll tell you this, however-- i never "objectified" the whores-- they were people, some very nice, we got along well most of the time, we'd fuck and chat and have a nice little personal connection until someone would knock the door (always too soon).

now, is prostitution wrong? i believe that depends on their working conditions. but regardless of their business- did i treat those women as a piece of meat to be discarded? no i didn't-- i treated them respectfully and affectionately and with immense gratitude-- they were helping me get my rocks off, they gave me something voluntarily for which they got something in return, and i was ready to build them a little altar in my home. i have some fond memories of them and i hope they are doing well. but they were people, real people, not objects.

however, it is easy to objectify/reify/dehumanize PICTURES of people who WILLINGLY SELL THESE IMAGES as objects of desire-- and i'd venture that most of those people enjoy that as a sort of power they hold over their audience. it's a mutually agreed-upon transaction and the object itself is the currency being trafficked. they are not selling their "souls", just pictures of their bodies.

take for example bai-ling. she's a terrible actress but she's hot. here's a picture of her:

 

while i'm sure that's airbrushed, i believe it to be a genuine picture, because i do recognize her nipples. she purposefully slips them out often:

 

is it wrong to see her as a non-person bearer of nipples? i'm not having a cup of coffee with her and hearing about her childhood dreams. she hasn't told me what's her favorite color or what books have changed her life and how she feels about the oil spill in the gulf-- she presents herself as tits and ass. it's her business, and people spend a ton of money to consume visions of said tits and ass. she makes money for it.

while having sexual desire for a real person does not entail turning them into a thing, a thing (picture) meant to arouse sexual desire is already an object, not a person, and it's fair game for treating it like an object. there's a huge difference between real people and pictures of people, at least for me.

anyway, on that same line of thought-- let's assume i get to meet bai-ling in person, and we have a nice dinner and talk about stuff and we hit it off she invites me to her bedroom (hey, we can all fantasize), she would then cease to be an object (picture) and turn into a real person by virtue of our interaction.

what we post here are not the souls and stories of real people. they are just pictures. the dehumanization occurred at the moment the photo was taken, not when some horny person decided to post it here.

 

now, some people will find those pictures offensive, but that's another story. i just wanted to clarify that we're not posting "real women" here, we're posting pictures of tits and ass that were created expressly for the purpose of elliciting desire-- from the "classy":

 

to the grotesque:

(just reached my picture limit but you can find it here)
http://www.juggworld.com/images/categories/bigtits.jpg

blame the patriarchy if you will for such kind of commerce, but remember that "the patriarchy" is not men alone. women participate equally in it.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by knox

I doubt you meant that men fantasized about living in a society in which their bodies were seen as mere instruments that belong to others more than to themselves and that would come before anyidea of individual self worth.

that is a little more specific than "objectifying"

*edit

I think for many men, especially the under-sexed ones, a society as you describe would still be desired. I also think you are generalizing a bit and that our current society is far better than what you describe.

[wellcharge]

i objectify !@#$%! he's too frequently correct to be considered a person

[Dr. Eugene Felikson]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to !@#$%! again.

I am unable to sexually pursue a female unless she both intrigues me mentally, and arouses me physically. However, once we're slapping nasties, I expect her to treat me as much of a sex object, as strongly as I am guaranteed to objectify her in every way that I can. To me, sex shouldn't be all too different from fighting. It is the carnivorous thrill of it, that is most rewarding, after all.

Women on the internet. They don't exist. Nothing on here truly does.

[ni'k]

i know you will probably all just bitch at me for the crime of a long post but anyway.

you know what i, and i'm sure most women hear when they read this stuff?

something like:
blah blah blah self important fatuous males drone on because they are right about everything and everyone else is there to listen to their mighty proclamations.

if you all decided to shut up, and listen to women they might actually like you, and you might actually be able to spend time with them instead of trying to substitute angry wank fantasies and message board chauvinism for a power of the opposite sex that you just don't have. but no, only women have feelings, men are just robots who want sex right? don't let mommy see me cry right?

but i mean, it comes down to the whole shutting up part which i know is so terribly terribly hard when you are male. but if you were to actually do it, and then realise the stupid cliche of the man bored out of his mind while the woman yaps on is just that and precisely the kind of crap that keeps men alone and unattractive, and if you were to actually try to listen and show some empathy then you might actually get the pussy you so desperately crave because how the fuck any of you get it in real life i don't know, because the way some of you come on this board and act strongly hints that you don't get very much at alll and are massively compensating. i know you'll tell me otherwise but whatever, it's not believable. not everyone but some.

do you all think that when males act like sexist ego maniac dicks in front of women they actually suceed with them? no. women often make them feel like they do, and laugh about them behind their back while they use them. i've seen this all the time. all that alpha male crap is just that, crap. because they get a fuck and brag and go on and on about it does not mean they get much more sex. it nearly always means less. but we males have raging egos and passions and emotions just like women do. the key is to not allow these to ruin our chances with women. and you can't do that thru either a kind of ironic embracement of them or massive suppression. you can only do that through being honest with them, at least those are the only guys i ever see doing well with women. and by doing well i mean actually enjoying themselves and being in good relationships with. the guys (and i did this once) who try to put up this massive front out of anxiety to prove themselves to a girl never get very far. the guys who are more concerned with what their friends think about them than what their girlfriend thinks always have these problems.

but i feel very sorry for you straight dudes, you are being massively manipulated by your societies ideal of what a "real man" is supposed to be, and how he is supposed to behave, which is just something grotesque and
stupid. you are being sold the notion that you have this uncontrollable pyschotic lust for pussy, just sex, nothing else, that you have no self concioussness about your bodies, no emotions, no other needs, and you buy into it completely, because you think its some sort of amazing priveledge and enjoyment. you try really hard to prove yourselves (to other guys) that you can live up to these bullshit models and it fucks your heads up. understand that these are your own societies strict codes for who is supposed to breed and when. this is not something innate to your physical make up that you are supposed to have in order to be male. but you are shamed by each other to behave in certain ways and pretend that women are just property to you. you, in your straight white form may be the assholes lording it over and oppressing the rest of the world, but with great dickitude comes great lonelyness. ha.

a lot of you buy into this whole american pie, gross out movie version of what your sexuality is supposed to be. and then feel there is something wrong with you if you don't feel like those actors behave. this is just crap, that kind of thing exists in your society because capitalism needs you to reproduce at a certain age to make more workers. other societys breed at different times and in different enviroments and settings, they have their rituals and ways of pressurising.

what i also hate is this narrative you see of the awkward lonely loser guy who just REALLY REALLY wants to fuck some girl but messes up and can't talk to her properly. there was an episode of skins in the last series that did this. i felt so sorry for any straight dude watching that because it was a horrendous model to try to emulate. guys do not feel like that. i don't believe that there are any of us who are anything close to 70% straight their whole lives. to be sold this vision of lidido that is patently false and denys you any emotional need is a really fucked up thing. you straight guys need hugs and massages and people to listen to you and share empathy with you more than ANYONE else! tell me this isn't true? but you're constantly told its better to be a lonely pyscho harbouring violent control fantasies. i guess its because assholes can make a lot of money appealing to the worst kind of ideas about you.

i am a guy, and it is very easy for me to see when guys are acting like some caricature of maleness in order to cover up for their anxiety/emotional pain/lonelyness. girls can see this too. it doesn't really impress them, but you can always bet on one thing, those guys will always hide it from their male friends and make it look like they were just "sick of that bitchs shit" when in actual fact it was them who were the ones dumped for being a quivering emotional wreck. then you see guys who have maybe had less luck with the ladies thus far believing these stories and trying to emulate who they falsely think are the alpha males.

ok, maybe im not the best person to listen to on these things, but i really think if a guy wanted to be successful with women spending all day looking at porn and bragging on a board is not the best way to do it, and is only gonna warp their perception of themselves.

and ps.

the amount of images posted here is just nauseating

could you not all agree to keep them in the one thread and not post them anywhere else?

that's perfectly reasonable no? for the rest of us it gets sickening having to look thru them over and over and over. does not make readinng the board pleasant. if you could alll agree to keep them in the one thread that would be appreciated and show at least some degree of the chivalry you all profess to have for the ladies.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by ni'k

long rant

calm down, dude.

don't get bitter, have some beefcake

 

 

 

[ni'k]

yeah i didn't expect any better

[space]

pie is better.

mmmmm.....american pie.

[space]

omg I can't wait to get hugs...and PIE.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by ni'k

yeah i didn't expect any better

it was too long and whiny to be read man, sorry-- i'm sure you have good points, you're a smart guy, but your tone was overly hysterical.

i thought you'd like the beefcake to counteract those disturbing naked women, and this is the thanks i get. FINE.

i hope this helps then

 

[ni'k]

it was not something i wanted to be proved right on... but oh well...

[Better_Than_Deux]

i read it ni'k, and im glad you posted it.

the best relationships i've ever had with boyfriends started out with really solid friendships. guys do need someone to listen to them more than girls!

when girls have girlfriends (and i am speaking from only my experience, i can't speak for anyone else) that's what I like to do. Not necessarily gossip, but talk and listen to my friends thoughts and ideas. I have friends that listen to me too; it's a two way street. But it seems like with guys (and I have many guy friends) you have to be with them one on one to have a really meaningful conversation. otherwise its all small talk.

SMALL TALK WILL DRIVE YOU FUCKING CRAZY. CRAZY ENOUGH TO FIT INTO STUPID MALE STEREOTYPES!!!!!

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Better_Than_Deux

i read it ni'k, and im glad you posted it.

the best relationships i've ever had with boyfriends started out with really solid friendships. guys do need someone to listen to them more than girls!

when girls have girlfriends (and i am speaking from only my experience, i can't speak for anyone else) that's what I like to do. Not necessarily gossip, but talk and listen to my friends thoughts and ideas. I have friends that listen to me too; it's a two way street. But it seems like with guys (and I have many guy friends) you have to be with them one on one to have a really meaningful conversation. otherwise its all small talk.

SMALL TALK WILL DRIVE YOU FUCKING CRAZY. CRAZY ENOUGH TO FIT INTO STUPID MALE STEREOTYPES!!!!!

not sure if you're aware of this, but the female brain has 11% more verbal neurons than men and they are generally better at processing language. they are also better at multitasking. which probably explains why your male friends need one-to-one attention to not pass as dunces.

anyway, since you read nik's post, could you please summarize it? i feel he makes a lot of assumptions about people he doesn't know-- like assuming that people are here seeking a mate-- flotto excepted-- but anyway, what are the highlights?

[space]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i hope this helps then

 

oh, god. it helps me.

uhngngghghggllghghguuuuooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oo