[Everyneurotic]

yeah, dylan and karen rule!

[lowlife]

Originally Posted by scott v

I agree its like the bands notorious for have put out a boatload are Wolf Eyes, Dead Machines, Hair Police...etc to me only have a handful of listenable well done works not that they are bad groups but that also feel that they can release a recording of some throwdown of tom-foolery in their basement recorded to some mini-cassette recorder, where i could go toss the same recorder next a garbage truck on trash day as it stops to churn all the crap from the neighborhood and it would sound the same. so to me these types of groups are more about marketing themselves for "what they do" without regard to "what they sound like" which in my opinion is unfortunate. agreed i respect more those bands that take some care in what they put out but they are few and far between...

People always act like bands that have alot of releases are pulling a fast one on their fans and swimming in all this cash. Most releases by Wolf Eyes aside from the vinyls and cds are released by tiny noise labels with small runs where the band gets paid in copies to sell on tour where the purpose is documentation, like how jazz musicians and other improv musicians get documented. Then once a year or so they put out an 'album' of 'songs' that are the ones we all know (burned mind, dead hills, etc.) I'm sure most of the people on this board would cream for a hundred Sonic Youth releases a year. Throbbing Gristle did the same thing, so have alot of other bands. 1)whats the big fucking deal, 2)who cares, 3)it is really fucking dorky to get offended by this kind of stuff because no one even knows what the hell it is! You don't have to buy the tapes for fucks sake.

[DeadDiscoDildo]

Thats funny, C Spencer Yeh was recently in the NY times! Funny that one of the only artists getting mainstream props from Cinci is a noise artist. I find that fucking awesome!

I AM in Cinci for the record, and a fan.

[Everyneurotic]

Originally Posted by lowlife

People always act like bands that have alot of releases are pulling a fast one on their fans and swimming in all this cash. Most releases by Wolf Eyes aside from the vinyls and cds are released by tiny noise labels with small runs where the band gets paid in copies to sell on tour where the purpose is documentation, like how jazz musicians and other improv musicians get documented. Then once a year or so they put out an 'album' of 'songs' that are the ones we all know (burned mind, dead hills, etc.) I'm sure most of the people on this board would cream for a hundred Sonic Youth releases a year. Throbbing Gristle did the same thing, so have alot of other bands. 1)whats the big fucking deal, 2)who cares, 3)it is really fucking dorky to get offended by this kind of stuff because no one even knows what the hell it is! You don't have to buy the tapes for fucks sake.

i don't think when someone releases every single rehearsal tape they record to be ripping off people in the economical sort of way (unless you're talking about people selling these a few years after on ebay for substantial sums of money) , and it's not really a big deal, so to speak. but it gets annoying and it doesn't speak well of quality control.

an example that surfaced lately is kenji siratori, who contacted tons of noise labels to release his stuff and tons of noise artists to collaborate with. he has like 500 releases so far and there's people who absolutely hate him because they heard a bad release by him while others think he is great. had he gone for quality over quantity, perhaps more people would check out the same release and decide instead of making their mind over a great or crappy thing, depending on what they heard.

most of wolf eyes' shit (in their case) comes out in their own labels, so their label and artist copies are the same. and i think the comparisons to jazz players and tg are unfounded since they did a fair bit of improvisation which renders each recording unique whether most of wolf eyes is the same thing with little variation.

personally, the fewer the sy releases the better; look at thurston's solo output, it can be pretty awesome or pretty awful because of the volume of releases.

and i agree, you don't have to buy squat, although it gets annoying trying to track down a good release over dozens of mediocre ones.

[lowlife]

Good points, wasn't aware about wolf eyes (I am not a record collector and I pretty much only have their 'major' releases and some other stuff, and am more familiar with their solo projects where there is alot of variation). I agree that some guys go apeshit about releasing every single note they record and I am certainly not into that.

Quality control is crucial. I also agree about qc with Sonic's output, just put them as an example because everyone here loves them. Thurston released a collab cassette w/Leslie Keffer that I think is embarrasingly bad in the amount of effort that went into it (none, aside from great cover art). People definitely need to work hard at getting good recordings if they want to be taken seriously

[Onani Nic]

So I started playing in a band with 100% fully structured songs on bass the end of last year (www.myspace.com/circlepit) after having only played in noise/drone/noise rock bands before hand. I can honestly say it's much less challenging (at least in the circumstances I've been in) playing in a rock band than playing improvised music.

I've switched over to synth (Realistic MG1, Moog made for radioshack) and some other feedback fx in my "rock" band, which is a pretty similar set-up to when I play "noise" (add some cassette loops) and I'd say its still more exhausting to play a noise set. I'm not talking pure-energy Masonna style stuff either, more mid to slow pace, building and changing slowly.

[RdTv]

Ehhh, I know where afterthefact is coming from and I've shared some of his feelings for a while also. The best noise I've heard has a great feel to it, melodic parts, dissonance, a drive. Its really like all other kinds of music, some of it is ok, some of it is garbage and some of it is great. Far as the proliferation of some artists output, well its their vison or whatever, let them do what they want. I myself am a quality over quantity kinda guy. Remember you dont need to like something just cause thurston says its cool, or because all your buddies sit around and circle jerk themselves to this ''band''. Make up your own mind about music, be honest with yourself, sometimes measure it against something else you love. All in all I understand what a noise musician is feeling, I get it, life's emotions and frustrations aren't in 4/4 time, they don't have a great hook to them, with that said, I like very very few noise tunes I've heard, but I can appreciatte what it means to some of us.

[batreleaser]

wolf eyes is very capable of making breathtaking tunes, but they just release too much. but albums like thier s/t, dead hills ep, and black vomit are some really brutal and interesting records. i still like them a lot because they were one of the first noise bands i listened to some 6 years ago or whatever, and obviously i had never heard anything like that. also, they are not always a pure noise band. some of thier stuff has elements of early industrial, early fucked up hardcore, noise, and even hypnotic dub ype rthyms. if they cut down of the amount of records they put out and focused more on being a psychedelic industrial band i dont there would be a whole lot of doubt in peoples minds theyre one of the best bands around.

as for noise, as much as i love it, i think its been getting far too serious and academic lately. there are less and less bands who just wana rock the fuck out. thats why i love people like tom smith, rat bastard, nandor nevai, weasel walter, yknow, the whole to live and shave in la crew. theyre making extreme avant music fun again. bands like to live and shave in la, to live and shave in la 2, ohne, laundry room squelchers, burmese, and the miss high heel record, are making music thats really extreme and really interesting, but also fun and not so serious. maybe im not making much sense, but im a firm believer in the 'free glam' aesthetic as outlined by to live and shave in la 2. it goes like this, "
Free glam was the guiding idea behind To Live and Shave in L.A. 2, created to free noise music from what was viewed as the tedious, studious formula of bands like Merzbow and Nihilist Spasm Band. It was created by Weasel Walter, Misty Martinez (the alter-ego of Liz Armstrong) and Rat Bastard, leading them to leave To Live and Shave in L.A. 1 and TLASILA founding member Tom Smith. The group incorporated everything noise music supposedly wasn't --glamour, fashion, obnoxious rock star attitudes, gossipy Fleetwood Mac-infighting, etc. Through doing, they showed that glamour itself and persona itself could be fragmented, freeform, abrasive, artistic and conceptual -- making the performer him or herself the equivalent of noise music as much as the sounds produced."

this from the to live and shave in la 2 website:
To Live and Shave in L.A. 2 is a terrifying vortex of solipsistic catharsis wherein the members violently express the innermost chaos in their black souls by extrapolation of set groupings of specific abstract parameters. Although the performances deceptively resemble the most heinous free improvisations imaginable, they are guided by a rigid and innate meta-logic. Discipline and sacrifice are the cornerstones of this martyr-like display. Each member is called upon to psychically transform themselves into a superhuman being, perpetrating physical acts of ungodly strength and musicality.

The fifth member of the group is an interdimensional demon known as THE INTERNAL ORGAN. This creature utilizes psionic abilities to conjure upper-partial aes-encoding fields, mesmerizing the audience and ultimately destroying their inner essences. This intellectual murder is orgasmic for the victim.

[afterthefact]

Haha, it's great seeing this thread back again

When I wrote the original post, I was sick of it. I was hearing its praises from every direction. There IS some good noise. There just so happens to be far more noise that is bad.

[batreleaser]

c spencer yeh's violin playing is very impressive. that is definitley not an instrument youd think of as capable of creating harssssshshhhh noise and drones. burning star core's 'what happens when you come home and all that is left of her is her hat?' casette, 'a definitive party atmosphere' cdr, 'lets play like the wildcats do', and 'challenger' are all fucking great.

 

[afterthefact]

Originally Posted by batreleaser

c spencer yeh's violin playing is very impressive. that is definitley not an instrument youd think of as capable of creating harssssshshhhh noise and drones. burning star core's 'what happens when you come home and all that is left of her is her hat?' casette, 'a definitive party atmosphere' cdr, 'lets play like the wildcats do', and 'challenger' are all fucking great.

Speaking of instruments not usually associated with noise (or maybe not noise, but droning), check out Toshinori Kondo's "Fukyo." Some great solo trumpeting in a way you aren't going to hear anywhere else.

[Everyneurotic]

most yeh and burning star core albums are boring and mediocre.

there's a scant few that utterly brilliant all in all, but you have to really dig for those.

[batreleaser]

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

most yeh and burning star core albums are boring and mediocre.

there's a scant few that utterly brilliant all in all, but you have to really dig for those.

the ones that i mentioned i think are fantastic. i also like one of his live records with wiese. maybe im just blinded by the fact that i think its so rad that this little guy is making a huge noise on a violin, because i historically have always agreed with you, but i think yeh's stuff is reallly cool.

[Toilet & Bowels]

i saw him live doing this stupid vocal improv and other non-violin playing things, and it was one of the worst and most pointless wastes of time and money i've ever bourn witness to. then i saw him with chris corsano and paul flaherty and he blew my mind.

[Everyneurotic]

ahh yeah, those albums with corsano and flaherty are good.

i talked about it with a friend, the problem with yeh is that he is really interesting and can make something really great but most of the time he doesn't, he's content with being a mediocre artist.

[Toilet & Bowels]

yeah, it's frustrating when you see someone who can't tell the difference between what they're talented at and what they aren't

[Everyneurotic]

and it happens with a lot of people.

[krastian]

Chris Corsano + Paul Flaherty = makes everything better