[hevusa]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

the other thing i find interesting about ghosts is that even though people no longer claim to see sea monsters, or dragons, or werewolves, or dog heads, etc. there hasn't been a comparable decline in ghost sightings

The appearance of ghosts in sightings (what the ghosts are wearing and how they look) has directly changed with the popular culture of the day. Religion has obviously played a role.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by hevusa

Ok then...
*wow*

are you unable to differentiate the dreams you have from things you've actually done?

if you fell asleep at the wheel would you be aware that you fell asleep at the wheel while asleep at the wheel?

what do those two things have to do with each other?

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by hevusa

One word: Hollywood.

I don't understand what that one word has to do with my point

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

are you unable to differentiate the dreams you have from things you've actually done?

I have remembered dreams that I have confused as being real. It happens to people all the time.

If you can fall asleep at the wheel while driving you could certainly snooze in front of the tele while eating. I can't believe you aren't getting this. You might as well go back to your "inter dimension travel" theory.

[Toilet & Bowels]

I'm not saying people don't fall asleep at the wheel, i'm not saying people don't fall asleep in front of the TV, I'm saying if you were to fall asleep in front of the TV and dream that you saw some people run through a wall (as you were telling Chicka that's what he did) I can't believe for one second that any reasonable adult would then wake up and not be aware they had been asleep and be confused enough to believe that their dream was something they actually saw. However, this assumption of adults being able to differentiate between dream and wakefulness may be because I assume most adults to have a reasonable degree of basic intelligence & awareness but conversing with you is forcing me to reconsider my opinion.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

I'm not saying people don't fall asleep at the wheel, i'm not saying people don't fall asleep in front of the TV, I'm saying if you were to fall asleep in front of the TV and dream that you saw some people run through a wall (as you were telling Chicka that's what he did) I can't believe for one second that any reasonable adult would then wake up and not be aware they had been asleep and be confused enough to believe that their dream was something they actually saw. However, this assumption of adults being able to differentiate between dream and wakefulness may be because I assume most adults to have a reasonable degree of basic intelligence & awareness but conversing with you is forcing me to reconsider my opinion.

It is quite common T&B:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia
"Mental phenomena that occur during this "threshold consciousness" phase include lucid dreaming, hallucinations, out of body experiences and sleep paralysis."

You have to remember that the world is filtered through our minds and is usually the first place to check when anomalies occur. There is 0% objective information available about the existence of Ghosts and God for a reason.

[knox]

Originally Posted by hevusa

The appearance of ghosts in sightings (what the ghosts are wearing and how they look) has directly changed with the popular culture of the day. Religion has obviously played a role.

Two people never confirmed the same sighting? Not true.
Of course, hallucinations are also real.
So it's hard to tell really what's what.

I don't like the definition of "supernatural" because everything that happens is natural.
But once again, you're not explaining how mediums are commonly used in investigations and even accepted in court, if they can provide and find evidence.

This isn't about ghosts, but it's interesting. There has been a famous case recently of a lawyer that disappeared and everyone suspected she had been murdered by her boyfriend - but no one found a body. One day after months her father claimed he had a dream in which she told him where the body was - miles away, in a random river in a nowhere place in the state. He wasn't quite sure where this place was so he walked and camped through the woods with his son for DAYS until he found the place he claimed to have seen in his dream. The police of course decided not to go at first, because they saw no evidence of anything like that - so he hired his own divers to go there. After a few hours, they found her car. Then the police went there and they were giving up but he insisted he knew where it was, and they ended up finding it. It was a very famous case people had been following for months, and clearly not a lie. Afterwards, certain witnesses started claiming they saw him driving the car there, but they hadn't said anything earlier. Someone can speculate the father got information from these witnesses before, but that would be perverse (why would he lie?) and wouldn't explain how we knew the exact spot or even why he had to be in the woods for days.

Of course, I believe there's a possibility that he might have heard the boyfriend or anyone talk about that place before and forgotten about it (although she had never been there). I also think Jung's theory of the collective uncouscious would provide an interesting explanation. It doesn't necessarily mean SHE was the one to do that, maybe he could somehow see her memories, but anything is possible.

And before you go blah blah blah blah blah please remember: I don't care what you say.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by knox

Two people never confirmed the same sighting? Not true.

Two people confirming the same sighting at the same time? Extremely rare I would guess. Please provide links to some if you have them. It still doesn't provide any objective evidence about their existence unfortunately.

[ploesj]

i've said this before; i strongly believe that the human mind is great, but incapable of understanding everything. no matter how brilliant and avanced science becomes, tehre will always be things that are just too big for us to understand. so instead of demanding proof for everything you can also find peace with the idea that you'll just never know certain things.

[knox]

By the way, I only posted that for people who will find it interesting.
Some people would probably claim it's a lie, but that's what they do when they encounter facts they cannot explain, because admitting "i can't explain that" can cause too much insecurity to some people. And it's ok.

[hevusa]

**Knox's fictional awareness creature of the day.**

Vampires. Also "not real".

[knox]

Originally Posted by hevusa

Two people confirming the same sighting at the same time? Extremely rare I would guess. Please provide links to some if you have them. It still doesn't provide any objective evidence about their existence unfortunately.

It happened to me more than once. My best friend has mediunic habilities and we've had some sights together. Now, obviously, you'll say it's a lie no need to share details with you so don't bother having a hissy fit.

Unless, of course, you can explain how people can collectively have the same hallucination - an interesting possibility to consider as well.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by knox

It happened to me more than once. My best friend has mediunic habilities and we've had some sights together. Now, obviously, you'll say it's a lie no need to share details with you so don't bother having a hissy fit.

Unless, of course, you can explain how people can collectively have the same hallucination - an interesting possibility to consider as well.

mediunic abilities? hahahahahahahahaha
you are too much.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_behavior
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_hallucination

How can you claim to be an adult? You are no such thing!

[ann ashtray]

If you go into a graveyard with ten people, and one lies, claiming to see a ghost...some of the remaining party will no doubt be spooked, many will claim to have witnessed the same thing themselves....

Shit like that happens all the time. Everyone wants to be an eyewitness.

I don't care if ten people claimm to have seen the same thing....this doesn't qualify as evidence unless some sort of recorded document can be presented...and even in these cases it still should be considered questionable.

Most people never experience seeing a ghost. With the billions of people that have died through history, I'm sure (if they exist) that there must be many more sightings than what there are.

Quit watching too much TV.

[knox]

It's just what I predicted, isn't it? Even if you face the facts you'll find a way to tell yourself they're not there and ridicule everything that you cannot explain. But it's ok, it's a natural reaction. That's what I meant it sometimes requires the same blind willpower that religious fanatics have. Possibilities are possibilities, scientific thinking implies you'd have to consider them. If you can't prove or disproof something, then it just can't be considered a fact, you don't know.

There are lots and lots of things science cannot explain YET. There are other things it might be wrong about, like it has been in the past. There are certain schools of science that could even begin to formulate some theories to explain certain things - quantum psychics perhaps.

Another widely accepted theory that could relate to the subject is Jung's:

My thesis then, is as follows: in addition to our immediate consciousness, which is of a thoroughly personal nature and which we believe to be the only empirical psyche (even if we tack on the personal unconscious as an appendix), there exists a second psychic system of a collective, universal, and impersonal nature which is identical in all individuals. This collective unconscious does not develop individually but is inherited. It consists of pre-existent forms, the archetypes, which can only become conscious secondarily and which give definite form to certain psychic contents.

But of course, that one be one interpretation of it.

Once again:
Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable

You gotta remember the UNKNOWN or UNKNOWABLE part. There is no certainty implied.

Agnostic atheismAgnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not have belief in the existence of any deity, and agnostic because they do not claim to know that a deity does not exist.

[knox]

Mass hysteria certainly explains a lot of claims, but not cases in which people don't claim anything or tell each other anything or are expecting anything. End of discussion.

As for being an adult, I'm not the one complaining because my friend decided to live life like an adult rather than jamming with me.

But either way, I haven't got interest in discussing any subject with disrespectful people.

[ann ashtray]

Knox, you are anything but respectful. Please shut up and go find this evidence you keep talking about. A few words on a monitor don't mean much.

Links?
Pictures?
Video?

Not some shit you found on yuotube, but something you yrself took...GO!

[GeneticKiss]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

Most people never experience seeing a ghost. With the billions of people that have died through history, I'm sure (if they exist) that there must be many more sightings than what there are.

Is this to say you haven't thought of the idea that not every ghost sighting has been reported? Some people may see a ghost but not tell anyone for fear of being dismissed or ridiculed. And even then, there may be insistances in which someone has seen a ghost and tells others but it never reaches an "official" documenter. Statistics don't always tell the whole story.

[knox]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

Knox, you are anything but respectful. Please shut up and go find this evidence you keep talking about. A few words on a monitor don't mean much.

Links?
Pictures?
Video?

Not some shit you found on yuotube, but something you yrself took...GO!

Yes, PICTURES of things that have no matter. Yeah I'll upload my collection on youtube. You realise that sounds even MORE insane than claiming to see ghosts? It's like asking people with synesthesia to make youtubes of the colors they see with sounds.

Have you noticed, Ann Ashtray, that you behave like a vulture always looking for or creating an opportunity to attack me in any way and you seem so very excited about it every time? And then you send me private messages saying it's not serious, it's just a discussion and you don't mean to insult me and you respect me or whatever? And that makes you seem pretty creepy?

I'm very sorry to disappoint you but it's a thread about ghosts, not about Knox. I know that doesn't interest you as much, but you must respect it.

[hevusa]

Still waiting for Knox's objective evidence in regards to the existence of ghosts.

NOT GONNA HAPPEN ANYTIME SOON!