[notyourfiend]

Originally Posted by pbradley

I worked in a non-profit that advocated for ex-convict rights to employment while in college, All of Us or None. Wasn't doing much other than bitch work, but the ex-convicted women that worked there were some of the nicest but hardest working women I've ever known. Unfortunately, it sounded as though their victories were few and far between.

I am doing very similar work right now through AmeriCorps. I work at a home that helps ex-incarcerated female addicts, helping them transition into a stable life. And yeah, some of those women are the hardest working people I've ever met. Living on the streets isn't easy. To believe that people want to remain homeless is truly one of the most ignorant/heartless comments that I have read on this board. Occasionally there is the hippie idiot who chooses to be homeless...but you can't make those types of generalizing assumptions based on a sorry few. People who are homeless do often make decisions that force them to remain homeless...but that's because most of those people are stuck in cycles that continue to keep them down (ie drug addiction and stuff) and don't have adequete education/reasources to find ways out of their situations. It's not like a homeless person can spend hours on the Internet searching for jobs or other options.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

seriously, has no one here ever heard of these crusty/trainhopper sorts that totally admit to doing this shit by choice, as a means of not living in what they consider to be a corporate sleeze bullshit world>?

That really is a small percentage.

Places like these aren't by choice.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/us/26tents.html

[pbradley]

Nobody said that small percentage doesn't exist.

However, you said most homeless people want to be homeless.

[pbradley]

Again, both that article and the one I posted before about the rise in unemployment show that reality and what you believe are completely different.

But belief does often comfort the believer so that they can keep their cigarettes to themselves.

[pbradley]

I would think the anger would be a reaction of perceived inhospitality fueled by addiction withdrawal. Like getting pissed that you already ran out of your own cigarettes.

Perhaps they also feel condescended to in being made to feel like a begger instead of as a equal.

Of course you'll say this is all their fault. The employed are better human beings than the unemployed, right?

[pbradley]

Do you consider your friends beggers if they ask for a cigarette or borrow a movie? Are they as despicable?

You should show hospitality because equals should respect each other, extending kindness is the first step in showing respect.

[pbradley]

But you've said asking isn't the issue but evidently it is if perceived dependence distinguishes friends from beggers.

Equal as in equally valuable as human beings. All men are created equal, etc. Are you incapable of respect for people that have different lives as you do?

[pbradley]

Again, I wonder what it is particularly that you love about America even though you reject the basic human decency that is the basis for equal respect under the law.

And I may harshly criticise people with whom I disagree with but that isn't the same thing as refusing to help them when they truly need it. Everything else is just bullshit to that little thing.

But whatever. You're a selfish fuck. You shrug when genocide occurs somewhere on the other side of the globe just as long as you have your truck and cigarettes.

[pbradley]

I have called you nothing more than what you have revealed yourself to be through questioning.

Do it, you working class hero. You self-made champion.

[demonrail666]

I'm suspecting swa(y) might be a bit of a steven seagal fan.

[notyourfiend]

I was taught in elementary school that part of what it means to be a decent human being is to treat yr fellow human beings with respect and by helping out as you have the means to do so.

It's sick how we have turned homeless people into a caste of their own. As a whole, we do not treat them with any bit of human dignity. Once you are homeless, it's very easy to get stuck...what do you do with blank spaces on yr resume, no previous references for a landlord, no credit etc? How do you get a job if you can't afford interview clothes, yet alone have no place to shower before the interview or to print out/work on yr resume?

I think it's pathetic that somebody would even attempt to justify homeless people wanting to remain homeless. Once again, of course there are some who are idiots...but even if half of the homeless population was homeless by choice (which is extremely far from being true), I will still make an effort to treat all of them with the respect that all human beings deserve. You never know another person's situation, ever. Especially not if you aren't willing to even talk to them. These face judgments about worthiness make the lives of homeless people are the more miserable. Close yr eyes for a moment and imagine what it would feel like to sleep out in the cold, being dismissed by everybody, pedestrians crossing the street to avoid you, having to constantly worry about being arrested for loitering, not being able to shower, having no friends or family to take care of you, fears over being murdered or raped when you close yr eyes to sleep....people in better positions are constantly justifying their bad decisions...well, i think that if i was in the position that i just described and the only thing to keep me warm during the winters/make me feel a little bit better was alcohol (plus it was cheeper/more filling than food) i would probably be a drunk, just to be able to get through my day.

Plus, what about you makes you a better person other than yr silly ownership of material possessions? (don't even try to argue that...the result will inevitably be both selfish and backwards)

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by notyourfiend

it's sick how we have turned homeless people into a caste of their own. As a whole, we do not treat them with any bit of human dignity.

I'm not sure if this happens in the US but something I've noticed about news coverage in the UK is that when a homeless person is being interviewed they very rarely give their surname. They'll simply be 'John', or 'Claire', or whatever, whereas an 'official' member of society will almost always be referred to by their full name. This can't have anything to do with anonymity because they'll almost always show them.

Just something I've noticed.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by TheFoxBen

 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TheFoxBen again.

[floatingslowly]

has anyone seen the documentary Dark Days? it's about homeless people that lived underground in New York. when asked, each of the homeless people made grandiose claims about how it's the best time in their life and how they wouldn't want to live ANY WAY else.

whether it was "gives me time to smoke crack" (seriously) or "I like to be free, man" they were all very convincing and enthusiastic about the life "they chose".

until, that is, when they were forced to move from their tunnels and given modest apartments. that's when the story changed to "oh my gawd, what was I thinking" and "I swear I'll never let it happen again".

you see, homeless people are still fucking people. when confronted or put into a position perceived lesser value, they get defensive and in no way will admit to "I fucked up" or "I don't want to be like this". however, when that stress is missing from their lives, they are able to talk more frankly about it, retrospectively.

of note: today's economy has skewed the "homeless" demographic, so of course yr going to get less of the stereotypical die-hards.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

has anyone seen the documentary Dark Days? it's about homeless people that lived underground in New York. when asked, each of the homeless people made grandiose claims about how it's the best time in their life and how they wouldn't want to live ANY WAY else.

whether it was "gives me time to smoke crack" (seriously) or "I like to be free, man" they were all very convincing and enthusiastic about the life "they chose".

until, that is, when they were forced to move from their tunnels and given modest apartments. that's when the story changed to "oh my gawd, what was I thinking" and "I swear I'll never let it happen again".

you see, homeless people are still fucking people. when confronted or put into a position perceived lesser value, they get defensive and in no way will admit to "I fucked up" or "I don't want to be like this". however, when that stress is missing from their lives, they are able to talk more frankly about it, retrospectively.

of note: today's economy has skewed the "homeless" demographic, so of course yr going to get less of the stereotypical die-hards.

I have been volunteering on skid row (well four skid rows) here in LA feeding the homeless.. I have met A LOT of different people there.. what unites 90% of them is that if you ask them what they are about, what they live for, they will say, "Nothin" and that explains that...

[demonrail666]

where the hell have you been, suchfriends? this thread without you was like a bottomfest sans the instigator

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

has anyone seen the documentary Dark Days? it's about homeless people that lived underground in New York. when asked, each of the homeless people made grandiose claims about how it's the best time in their life and how they wouldn't want to live ANY WAY else.

whether it was "gives me time to smoke crack" (seriously) or "I like to be free, man" they were all very convincing and enthusiastic about the life "they chose".

until, that is, when they were forced to move from their tunnels and given modest apartments. that's when the story changed to "oh my gawd, what was I thinking" and "I swear I'll never let it happen again".

you see, homeless people are still fucking people. when confronted or put into a position perceived lesser value, they get defensive and in no way will admit to "I fucked up" or "I don't want to be like this". however, when that stress is missing from their lives, they are able to talk more frankly about it, retrospectively.

of note: today's economy has skewed the "homeless" demographic, so of course yr going to get less of the stereotypical die-hards.

I saw something similar, about the 'mole people' living in new york's subways.

Yes, people in a shit situation are likely to defend it or justify it in comparison with the 'straight' world, either when they see no way out of it, or out of sheer pride. this inevitably gives rise to accusations that it's 'what they want' rather than seeing their apparent acceptance merely as a syndrome brought about as a result of their situation.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I'm not sure if this happens in the US but something I've noticed about news coverage in the UK is that when a homeless person is being interviewed they very rarely give their surname. They'll simply be 'John', or 'Claire', or whatever, whereas an 'official' member of society will almost always be referred to by their full name. This can't have anything to do with anonymity because they'll almost always show them.

Just something I've noticed.

It's probably to protect the "honor" of the family associated with the surname. Many homeless people are effectively disowned by their relatives for all kinds of reasons.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by pbradley

It's probably to protect the "honor" of the family associated with the surname. Many homeless people are effectively disowned by their relatives for all kinds of reasons.

Yeah, that's a possibility but I really don't think it's a decision made by the interviewee so much as a general convention used by the media - who aren't generally known for protecting the honor of those they come into contact with. Also, if it occured in conjunction with the person's face being blacked out or their voice being distorted it'd make more sense. Often though, the person being interviewed is completely open about their identity and history but still, when their name comes up at the bottom of the screen they're just 'John'.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

where the hell have you been, suchfriends? this thread without you was like a bottomfest sans the instigator

honestly I found this thread a bit boring..