[Genteel Death]

http://www.gfktechtalk.com/2011/03/2...vinyl-records/
one of the many articles about this.
vinyl was, apparently, the format with the biggest increase in sales last year, and the trend doesn't seem to stop. it certainly won't match digital sales now or in the forseeable future, but it's very good news for those who still buy it.

[Inhuman]

Hm, it will be interesting if the y can exceed vinyl quality with computers. Thing is, is there needs to be some sort of compression, where it's limitless with vinyl. Since computers begun, it needed to compress. When making a mathematical equation, does the computer consider "pi" as 3.141 or 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 10582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706 79 etc. A file size can't get those 'limitless' frequencies the grooves have.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't see it as being better than vinyl quality in the forseeable future

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by kinnikpasswordforgetter

could there be any way to create a new format that would involve files that could exist digitally online but be 'burnt' onto an analogue device that was connected to a computer?

Why would anyone want to do that, though? I predicted you'd jump on this thread to point out the nostagia factor in all this, and initially I was kind of thinking similarly. The majority of vinyl produced now comes with high quality mp3 codes, so that you can carry around the music you've bought and easily transfer the files from device to device. Hardly useful if this niche market only targets the nostalgic listener. Surely if nostalgia alone played a big factor in all this, the majority of people buying this format woud be old, which doesn't seem to be the case here. A fairly large number of new records by more recent bands are released on vinyl and bought by a younger crowd. They don't account for the totality of the market, sure, but they certainly are a driving component of it.

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by aselfishimpulse

man im sorry, but as an engineer/producer i have to step in an say that that's just not true. there's no way to replace the "warmth"/"depth" that analog formats offer that digital doesnt. it has to do with the actual sound wave, in which analog is a steady signal, and digital is a small fractured pattern which makes up a signal, leaving data out/altering the sound overall.

vinyl isnt something that's really a trend, people who love music have collected vinyl 20 years ago when people were buying CDs, it's something that's just becoming more and more popular and will ultimately not die out in the foreseeable future

Precisily, and this coming from someone who listens to music on mp3/cd/cassette/minidisc AND vinyl.

[Glice]

I always think it's a bit of a mistake to assume that one of the 'virtues' of vinyl is that it's analogue. It's only the reproduction, from needle-arm, that's particularly 'analogue', and the overwhelming majority of non-audiophiles use gear that converts the signal to 'digital' somewhere along the line. How many bands use all-analogue studios? Ones who work with Steve Albini who, as many of you are aware (what with having ears), is the emperors most boring new clothes.

So I'm saying that the digital 'vs' analogue debate is just bullshit, essentially. Ok, I know that there's recording engineers and so on who'll argue about that, and I'm a big fan of a wide portfolio of sound sources, recording, mastering (etc etc). But essentially it doesn't really play in the 'vinyl vs mp3' debate.

Are mp3s lower quality? Sometimes, yes. And I don't care what studio-heads say - the overwhelming majority of music fans - and I take that to include the 'hardcore' music fan - can make minimal distinctions between digital/ analogue recordings and digital/ analogue reproduction. And, just to be clear, there's a massive difference between the various factors at play (recording, reproduction, mastering and so on).

I'm only saying that to be clear that I don't endorse vinyl for any nostalgic reasons. The idea that everything in my life is reduced to a computer screen is just fucking laughable. I use computers heavily. They are a tool. They are not a tool I use to play music. I have a handful of mp3s, but the majority of my music is in 'hard' formats, like CDs and vinyl. But not tapes, because - and I think more people should take note of this - tapes are just shit. I don't care about the 'warmth' or the shit fidelity - they're shit. Shit shit shit. Tapes are about nostalgia, and in some incredibly rare cases the fidelity suits, but generally anyone using tapes can fuck off (that includes myself, obviously).

Anyway. This a bit of a circuitous defence of vinyl. I'd take on board that there's a rampant wasteful economy attached to vinyl, but there's a rampant wasteful economy attached to the production of silicon for computers. Whether one is greater I'm unsure, though I suspect there's a case to be made for the transportation of vinyl being far less cost-effection/ ecologically viable (etc etc).

But. Some people enjoy vinyl. Many people appreciate the ontological surface of it. Musicians should get paid for labour. Regardless of who they are. I spend a lot of time working on my solo stuff to play a gig without getting paid. I play a function, having learnt the songs (if at all) 10 minutes before, and I'll get somewhere between £50-250 an hour. Vinyl is a way of recouping profit for musician's labour, and is attractive to the market. CDs and mp3s are very cheap and disposable (in both an aesthetic and material sense) and the market treats them as such. If some of those people buying vinyl are doing it because it's 'warm' and 'real sounding', or for other hackneyed bullshit reasons really doesn't matter. That there exists a format which treats music, as an ontological, material object, with some sort of dignity, as an art form, that's utterly crucial at a time when musicians themselves don't treat themselves with dignity.

[Glice]

tl;dr - wax ftw

[Pelle]

Digital formats suck.
Completily loosing all the point of collecting records.

The fact that you can hold the release itself in your hand is what I like about vinyls, tapes, cds, etc.
Vinyl will never die, i'm very shure.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by afonso

If you would've actually read Marx, nik, you would've understood that the greatest persuasive power of 'commodities' comes not from their use-value but rather from its fetishization. Seeing how the future of digital is the 'cloud', therefore even less material, and being vinyl an well established format that fulfills this need, I'd say there are good chances it'll will stay along for awhile.

I'll save ni'k the bother of replying.

What you've done there is to emphasise 'fetishisation' while presuming an ontological primacy - something that Marx and Engels didn't do, and rarely do any Marxists (from the academic ones I've read at least). Music is still fetishised in the surface-less realm - that's why people still listen to it as a non-essential commodity, why we're all here talking about music. That the commodification of music hasn't shrunk the transparent exchange-production-commodity of music doesn't mean that there isn't those economical demarcations there - vis-a-vis, most pop music videos, consumed on youtube (owned by Google) have product placement in. The economy has removed the direct exchange value of ontological commodity fetish, but don't be fooled into thinking that the exchange value was destroyed or removed. EMI is still turning a massive profit, just not directly from classic record industry product.

To make that a little clearer - music is fetishised both ways (if vinyl is really distinct from 'digital' formats, an bifurcation I've challenged previously in this thread) and ni'k is well aware of this.

[Keeping It Simple]

I never thought I'd say this, but I'm very happy with mp3s. They're just such an easy and convenient way to listen to music. My attitude changed when I bought a Nokia smart phone. I now only listen to music through it. All the mp3s I've got stored on it are converted youtube videos, so they haven't cost me a single penny. Plus they're far more eco-friendly.

[Glice]

Sometimes I condescend to point out that you're all fuckwits.

Also, patronising little nikky noo noo only make him have a wittle boo boo, and no-one wants to see his salty tears.

[floatingslowly]

glice: kill yourself.

lol


ontopic: I'd love to buy more vinyl but the thought of lugging what I have downunder is already giving me fits. and by fits, I mean mp3s take up less cunting space. I've hauled my fucking crates back and forth across THE GREATEST COUNTRY known to god enough times to wish I'd never bothered.

[floatingslowly]

all of that said, I love my Thunderbolt Pagoda vinyl like I love my penis (often).

[Keeping It Simple]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

glice: kill yourself.

lol


ontopic: I'd love to buy more vinyl but the thought of lugging what I have downunder is already giving me fits. and by fits, I mean mp3s take up less cunting space. I've hauled my fucking crates back and forth across THE GREATEST COUNTRY known to god enough times to wish I'd never bothered.

Agreed. You'd need a large, gas guzzling truck to haul a large vinyl collection across the outback, whereas the mp3 equivalent can snuggly fit in your jeans pocket!

[keep poppin pimples]

i like vinyl and everything

but increased vinyl sales most likely means one thing

and that's more hipsters

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by keep poppin pimples

i

and that's more hipsters

did you just squeal a little bit while typing that?

[floatingslowly]

it's totally nostalgia. recently I threw away an entire bag of cassette tapes. just tossed 'em. no regrets. yet I reckon I'll be taking that INXS picture disc with me to the fucking grave.

also, my ears are so shot from listening to too much Ministry that I doubt I could tell the difference in quality between the most pristine vinyl i have and my iPOOed if it was shown to me on a graph.

[keep poppin pimples]

Originally Posted by tesla69

did you just squeal a little bit while typing that?

why? you gave up on reptilians and are now on the lookout for pig people?

[Genteel Death]

Wrong again, Nikita. You seem to be confusing collecting records with buying the ones you want to own and will listen to. That's a big difference. And as you already know, you always have the option to sell them if you decide to get rid of them.
And what's the story with not giving a fuck? You semi-engaged yourself with the thread in a manner that seemed to indicate you scrutinise the buying habits of other music listeners you don't really know. Isn't that the same as cracking shit jokes about hipsters? Quality difference between mp3 and vinyl? When did I mention on this thread that's my reason for still buying this format?

[Derek]

I like owning music and vinyl seems like a better investment and is more funner to listen to than a plain old CD. The end.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Glice

Sometimes I condescend to point out that you're all fuckwits.

Also, patronising little nikky noo noo only make him have a wittle boo boo, and no-one wants to see his salty tears.

Someone who takes the internet too seriously NEG REPPED me for this. Can you imagine?