[Severian]

Anyone planning to see this next week? Anyone planning to avoid it at all costs?

I know there's a lot going on in the world right now, and that all of it is without exception more important than this film. But this thing's finally about to open, and I am a comic nerd so I feel the need to talk about it.

 

Took me a long time to warm to the idea of this film even existing. I think DC has an entirely different set of strengths than Marvel, and I think it would behoove them to carve out a cinematic universe that played more to those strengths (iconic individual characters, rather than iconic teams; villains that don't suck, etc.). So I would much rather see a sequel to Man of Steel followed if necessary by a new Batman reboot than something like this.

Also I'm just not a fan of Mr. Affleck, and I think Zach Snyder's impulses as a director are frightening, and need to be kept in line by someone who isn't an idiot. The idea of a more dark and tornented Superman (a la Man of Steel) is something I can totally get behind. But Superman should never NEVER be in an R-rated film, director's cut or not.

So I'm a little nervous about all of this. These are my two most beloved comic book characters of all time, but I feel no need to see them share a screen. However, I've been impressed by the trailers and I am prepared for it to be a either an explosive action film that's a lot of fun, or a Watchmen-esque insult to everything I love about comics. Either way, I'll be there on opening weekend.

I'm pretty sure everyone can safely assume that this is not going to be a great film, like the Dark Knight. Ok, it's definitely not going to be a great film, and of course it's not going to be as great as the Dark Knight. But it should be fun... I hope.

[Severian]

That's a goddamn deviantart poster. Ugh. Surprisingly difficult to find official posters for the film that are interesting. Anyway, I guess this is the "final" official poster. But who can be sure? Fuck it.

 

[The Soup Nazi]

I MUST see this film. Must! Christian Bale left the bar pretty high, I think; Affleck, I have no problems with on several of his movies, but in the trailers he seems to be much better at being Bruce Wayne than Batman — I look at the guy in the mask and I see Ben Affleck, not the Dark Knight. Then again, they were just damn trailers.

Now, "#WhoWillWin"? Dude, come on, we already know that a) in the end they unite to fight the common enemy (Doomsday) and b) Ms. Gadot is gonna be 2016's hottest piece of A. I don't think many Palestinians are gonna be too happy about that, though.

[Severian]

Agreed, agreed, yes.

I thought Christian Bale was an excellent pick for the role considering the tone of the Nolan films. It was kind of a "no bad acting allowed" situation. No risks could be taken (except .. y'know.. Katie Holmes. Ick.) Even though Christian Bale never really screamed "Batman!" at me in any way, he's such a committed actor, capable of so much, that even though the role wasn't very meaty compared to others in the series (Ledger, of course, and Gary Oldman's Commissioner Gordon was really excellent - should have earned him a supporting actor nod at least once), Bale still somehow made both Batman and Bruce Wayne work very well. I know Michael Keaton's the fan favorite, but his Bruce Wayne was shit. Bale wins.

About Affleck, he's at his best when he's playing straight roles, or absurd ones. He was lovable in Good Will Hunting, and fun in Dogma, but in Gone Girl he was just passable. I expect that kind of performance here.

And yeah, he looks super Affleck-y in the Batsuit. Especially in the straight-ahead shots. Borderline dumb. But whatever. Assuming he's not going to top Bale, and just letting that be what it is, I think it could work.

Gal Godot should be excellent. She is gorgeous and talented and badass.

I just really hope this doesn't kill off Superman, or ruin the chances of a proper Man of Steel II. I seem to be only of the only people alive who thought that was just an excellent modem day Superman story. It pisses me off that everyone complains about how it's "too dark" when the chief complaint about Superman films for so long was that they weren't dark or gritty or realistic enough! There was absolutely nothing wrong with that film. I was sure Zach Snyder was going to mutilate the character, but for me, it was as perfect a Superman film as Dark Knight was a Batman film. It just rock, and clung to the integrity and ideals of the character without being old fashioned.

Anyway, not sure how I feel about Aquaman, Flash, Cyborg and all that. Seems as though if that's all going to be thrown in there, they might as well just call this thing The Justice League, and have it be the "origin story" of the cinematic version of the group.

Buy I'm still so goddamn pumped for this. This will be the... Eighth Batman film I've seen on opening day, the tenth DC film I've seen on opening day. I love for this shit. Basically, my life is about work, family, music and batman and superman films.

[Severian]

Also I think it's a good sign for DC that the third Captain America movie has opted to take on this same basic formula. I know a Civil War film was always part of their plan, but it came together in the shadow of Dawn of Justice. And it really looks, despite all the shit they've taken for following Marvel (which is really ironic and backwards considering the history of the two imprints), as though Marvel is piggy backing off the fan reaction to the way this movie has developed over the last few years.

I mean Jesus, they made Civil War in a hot Fucking rush. Less than a year. They threw that shit together so fast, and it's coming out less than a month after BvS. It looks pretty cool itself, but still, I think the decision to make it a Cap v. Iron man film is a direct result of this.

I still have hope for DC. And it doesn't hurt that Batman is the most popular comic book character in the world. A lot of people are going to come just to see him.

[LifeDistortion]

More interested in this movie when it comes to DC if mostly because we haven't gotten Harley Quinn in a movie, and I remember even back during The Dark Knight some wondered if HQ would be in that.

 

[Severian]

Yeah, I'm gonna be all over Suicide Squad.

Although I have to say Jared Leto is my least favorite actor in the world. I'm not pumped to see him playing my favorite villain. I can think of SO many actors who would be better in the role. Specifically Andrew Scott (Sherlock, SPECTRE)

 

And Vincent Cassel (Black Swan, Partisan, Irreversible)

 

Cassel even has a bit of a Caesar Romaro look. Plus, he's great at playing truly unsettling, violent manipulative characters.

Jared Leto looks like a Marilyn Manson movie extra. Not looking forward to that shit.

[Severian]

Also, in a perfect world, I'd cast Ryan Gosling as Bruce Wayne/Batman. After seeing him in Drive, I believe he'd be absolutely perfect. Little hair dye and boom! You've got yourself a badass Batman who can act like a god and fight like an animal.

[Rob Instigator]

I fucking hated the new Superman film. Fucking bullshit vomited over everything Superman is thematically about. Fucking horrible what they did to it. May as well make a Robin Hood movie where he is a survivor of child abuse and attacks rich people for revenge instead of to steal from them and give to the poor. It was that antithetical to Superman...

As far as the recent Bale Batman? He fucking sucked. His lisp fucking sucked. His voice fucking sucked. "Batman" was the single worst shit in those Nolan films. Everything else was OK ,but Bale sucked. he is already being forgotten and thankfully so.


Fucking Ben Affleck? We shall see. That fucker sucked in Argo, he sucked in everything I have ever seen him in. he won an oscar by riding Matt Damon's writing coattails. He is a fucking hack shit actor and this movie is going to SUCK.

that is my prediction. (can you tell I was severely disappointed by Avengers Ultron? Fucking James Spader played Ultron like a sassy queen who is mad that his manicure came out sloppy.)

[tesla69]

In the comic version Superman is a totalitarian hack - he helps enslave The Flash in a giant generator to generate electricity - I found that really shocking.

[Rob Instigator]

that is not the "canon" comics. That is in Frank MIller's "what-if-esque" Dark Knight Returns which is just a potential future for Batman and Supes.

It is not considered actual DC storyline.

Superman is godlike in his powers, and because of this, he was taught by good parents that because of his powers he is responsible for using them to help others, and not to hurt people. He lost his entire planet/civilization/people when Krypton blew up and was cared for and loved by Earthlings and so he comes to treat Earth as his adopted home and protects it against all manner of evil.

the movie did NOT show that. That Man of Steel movie SUCKED

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

that is not the "canon" comics. That is in Frank MIller's "what-if-esque" Dark Knight Returns which is just a potential future for Batman and Supes.

It is not considered actual DC storyline.

Superman is godlike in his powers, and because of this, he was taught by good parents that because of his powers he is responsible for using them to help others, and not to hurt people. He lost his entire planet/civilization/people when Krypton blew up and was cared for and loved by Earthlings and so he comes to treat Earth as his adopted home and protects it against all manner of evil.

the movie did NOT show that. That Man of Steel movie SUCKED

Well, it's not really the point of the thread, but Man of Steel showed that very well. Case in point: saving the bully who was beating his ass when he was just a kid, pleading with Zod and constantly giving him chance after chance to not kill the people of his planet. In fact, he only finally resorted to killing Zod when Zod was about to obliterate that family in the museum. And it broke is heart to do so. He was totally torn, wanting Zod to see in the people of Earth what he saw. He Fucking SOBBED after snapping Zod's neck.

He also went to India and just let the world engine beat the hell out of him to stop it from killing people all over the world. Barely managed to summon the strength to destroy it.

He traveled among the people of Earth, which is exactly what Clark Kent has done in more recent comic storylines. They plucked a lot of that shit right out of the comics, man. And superman 2.

Maybe you didn't like the move, but that was Superman. You can just go ahead and trust me on this. Was it a slightly more "relevant" and modern take on Supes? Sure. Did it have a serious undertone to it? Yeah. But it's actually the only film to really explore the politics of Krypton (and indeed life on Krypton) and it was awesome. Lifelong superman fan right here. Stuck by him through it all. Even supported Superman Returns. But Man of Steel was the best Superman film ever. I don't even really know what you're going on about. He was very classic Superman.

And I disagree with you about Bale's Batman. Nobody loves the Batvoice, but other than that he rocked the part. And so many other great performances are in those films, from Neeson to Ledger to Hardy, Michael Cane, Morgan Freeman, and so on. The world of Batman is never, never going to get better than that.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by tesla69

In the comic version Superman is a totalitarian hack - he helps enslave The Flash in a giant generator to generate electricity - I found that really shocking.

Well, that was the sequel to the book that is providing a lot of the inspiration for the BvS film. It wasn't Dark Knight Returns itself. But Supes was a hack in that too. Or rather, he was deeply confused and had kinda pulled an "iron man circa Civil War" and decided that superheroes should no longer be vigilantes.

But that's not the inspiration behind the entire film. Snyder and DC are simply taking elements of Dark Knight Returns because it was the most epic fight between the two of them.

[Rob Instigator]

I thought the Nolan Batman movies sucked shit as far as Batman goes because they were not about the dark knight detective. Batman solved no mysteries, solved no crimes, deduced absolutely nothing in those movies, and was basically a generic hero. Batman is my all time fave and the movies did not do it right in my eyes. Batman was never ever ever supposed to be an anti-hero. he is a human being with NO powers at all. He is a vigilante.

The Nolan movies made him into a version of Tony Stark with angst. I hated that shit. Christian Bale sucked. Bane is a stupid enemy with no wit or cleverness, unlike the standard batman enemies like the riddler, joker, penguin, etc. That Bane movie just plain sucked, and I have seen it 4 times. each time I hate it more and more.....

[Rob Instigator]

People forget how funny and how witty the Miller dark knight stuff was. The movies lacked all wit.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I never understand the appeal to all these comic book movies.. they always suck.. the production is always campy and over the top.. the acting is always subpar.. the CGI is always too much... I much prefer watching the animated versions of these..

The Miller era Dark Knight stuff was as BRILLIANT if not more so as the Wolverine solo series from that same era...

[Severian]

Nolan's Dark Knight Rises takes a few cues from Miller's series as well. The entire issue of Batman coming out of retirement is directly tied in with Miller.

That's one thing I really loved about the storyline of the Nolan and Bale films. For each film, they pulled from a different set of classic Batman stories. Batman Begins was largely based on Year One, and an older storyline called the Man Who Fell. Dark Knight pulled mostly from Jeph Lowb and Tim Sale's The Long Halloween, and a big from Killing Joke. But not directly from either. Dark Knigjt Rises was equal parts Dark Knight Returns, Knightfall and No Man's Land. That third film probably made the best use of high profile storylines, mixing them together to come up with a story that's better in many ways than much of the source material.

I'm really sad that Nolan's Batman is over. Really. I think there are virtually no directors who have the kind of expanse of vision or the right touch to really make the Batman world work on screen. Nolan probably sacrificed some street cred as a director to do the project, but he made it awesome and it gave him creative license to pursue big, reliably brilliant blockbuster level head trips like Inception and Interstellar.

Zach Snyder is not that kind of director. He seems to only want to do comic book movies. Which is fine, as long as he's not killing them as he almost did with Watchmen.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I never understand the appeal to all these comic book movies.. they always suck.. the production is always campy and over the top.. the acting is always subpar.. the CGI is always too much... I much prefer watching the animated versions of these..

The Miller era Dark Knight stuff was as BRILLIANT if not more so as the Wolverine solo series from that same era...

Old Man Logan? They're making that into a movie (another Fucking Hugh Jackman movie, hopefully the last), and it's going to be rated R. Working title is (get read!) Wolverine 3.

The appeal is different based on the character. For me, the appeal of the Marvel films I don't hate is pure fun. I love Captain America and a few other characters, but mostly I think the movies are just eye popping good old fashioned fun.

The appeal of Batman is entirely different. It's a constant wishing and waiting game to see if the beloved and decidedly non-campy characters are going to be done justice. Tim Burton did well with what was available to him at the time, and though he made acting secondary, he recruited good enough actors that it worked. Nolan did the impossible by making an entire trilogy that peaked with one of the best movies of the last decade. Every character was pulled off beautifully.

The appeal of Superman is different again. It's a tricky one, because it can't be all about action and it can't have not enough action. It has to concede a bit to the fact that the character was definitely a Christ analogue from the start without turning it into something corny. Superman is actually one of the most complex characters out there. And for me, he's the most personal. I'm so glad Tim Burton never got his hands on Superman. Ugh.

Didn't you read comics as a kid? I did, and still do. They were a huge part of my early development. How could you not understand the appeal of seeing characters you grew up with come to life in front of you? It's a tough thing really, because it's usually done WRONG. Those first three X-man films were just awful. As were the Spidey films, the Hulk films, Daredevil, Green Lantern. For every one that's GREAT (Dark Knight, Guardians of the Galaxy, Man of Steel) there are handfuls that are just ok (iron man, iron man 2, Thor, the recent X-men films) and countless absolute pieces of shit.

[Rob Instigator]

My friend and I watched XMen 3 at theater, and at one point I wondered aloud why Magneto didn't just fling Wolverine to the Moon and quip, "Let's see you regenerate some air." and we laughed and laughed and we were sushed by the audience.

The 2nd Xmen movie was decent, but the first and 3rd sucked.

I enjoyed days of future past a lot because it was more in the spirit of the OG stan lee xmen

I thought the last Wolverine movie was OK. The others were horrible.

My fave comics as a kid were Batman, The Hulk and the Hulk films have really really sucked shit.

That is why I thought Ant Man was a fun film. it was not about apocalypse of the world, and all that stupid hollywood shit. it seemed more in line with the ant man comic books.

guardian of the galaxy I thought was OK, but I never read that comic, and it was very basic in it's plot.

The whole point of Batman is that he mostly fights the fights that the superpowered poeple never bother fighting, where he actually captures criminals, fights for the underpriviledged, the forgotten, and deals constantly with issues of mental health and sanity in his enemies. He never really wins in the comics by just punching shit.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I thought the Nolan Batman movies sucked shit as far as Batman goes because they were not about the dark knight detective. Batman solved no mysteries, solved no crimes, deduced absolutely nothing in those movies, and was basically a generic hero. Batman is my all time fave and the movies did not do it right in my eyes. Batman was never ever ever supposed to be an anti-hero. he is a human being with NO powers at all. He is a vigilante.

The Nolan movies made him into a version of Tony Stark with angst. I hated that shit. Christian Bale sucked. Bane is a stupid enemy with no wit or cleverness, unlike the standard batman enemies like the riddler, joker, penguin, etc. That Bane movie just plain sucked, and I have seen it 4 times. each time I hate it more and more.....

There was more Detectice stuff than you're letting on man. He tears ballistics samples in TDK, and does a lot of sneaking around in Batman Begins. I agree that they didn't (and never have) truly done justice to the "world's greatest Detectice" thing. Batman is supposed to be a superior intellect... almost a genius... who knows when to stay out of a fight and when to start one. The movies (almost by necessity) emphasized his physical strength and technical Savvy over everything else. But I still think they did an excellent job.

He did a ton of digging in TDK to find the Joker's identity. But there was so much going on in all of those movies that there was no time for slow-burning detective work scenes. They were all 2+ hours and ran at a really fast pace. So they made a few compromises. But it was awesome.

And Bane is actually written as a pretty clever character. He's almost like Batman's equal opposite in the comics (or was before he started finding his way into so many other goddamn storylines). But I thought he was a shitty choice for a villain too until I saw Tom Hardy prepping for the role. Hardy should have had more screen time in TDKR. He really was frightening as Bane. Way better than the often hokey comic book version.

But I'd love to see big screen batman pitted against Dr. Strange or a (not ridiculously stupid) Riddler. That would make for a good detective story, if done right. Probably not gonna happen any time soon though.