[ann ashtray]

Just curious...

Does/should a chemically induced spiritual experience actually count as being spiritual?

Naturally, being a non-spiritual individual, I lean toward "no". But really, I have no solid opinion either way.

[Inhuman]

Great thread idea!

To me, the use of entheogenic chemicals do 'count' as being spiritual, though I feel it's important for them not to BE the spirituality itself, and it's largely dependent on the intent of use. They're not the Truth in itself, but can point one in the right direction. It's the fact that one can reflect on life, situations, koans, prayers, etc and receive a different angle of insight, and then in the sober state reflect on the 'high' insight and extract elements of understanding and apply it to daily life.

Even chemicals that aren't typically seen as entheogens can be spiritual. For example, opiates can induce a tranquil state, and mixed with a small amount of MDMA it can provide very strong states of inner peace and appreciation, allowing the individual to question their levels of peace/appreciation for the world around them when they're sober.

What ISN'T spiritual is when the user is taking the drug for the purpose of entering this state for mere satisfaction and yearns for it when not under the influence, due to discomfort of the world around them or even addiction. Then the chemical has the opposite effect and ends in bad results.

There are even many that use entheogens without the intent of receiving insight and do receive insight that allows them to crawl more out of their box, and perhaps aids them in graduating into more formal practices of exploring the mind and Self like Vedanta or Buddhism.

[Pookie]

Well as "spiritual" is such a vague term then it can mean anything you want it to.

So the answer to your question is: Yes.
So the answer to your question is: No.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Pookie

Well as "spiritual" is such a vague term then it can mean anything you want it to.

So the answer to your question is: Yes.
So the answer to your question is: No.

No, the answer is both not yes and not no, surely? C'mon, you're meant to be good at this cynicism lark.

[Pookie]

You want to know how cynical I am? I didn't even read the question.

[Glice]

Yeah? Well I can't even be

[atsonicpark]

Maybe.
Possibly.

It all depends on what you got out of it, of course. Meditating releases certain chemicals in our brain an throughout our body... running does too... eating does too... everything does... drugs just push out certain things faster, and better, and crazier... heh. I'm just saying: whatever leads to an experience you might qualify as mystical or spiritual, is -- if you think it is -- mystical and spiritual, regardless of how you get there. There is no one pure way to get to something, since everything you think and do and put in your body and do to your body is going to lead you to something ("what goes in must come out"). You know?

edit: Okay, having read the thread, Inhuman already hit upon some of my points. Well, anyway. To speak about my spirituality... I personally know from my chemical inductions that I've seen angels chop my head off and God is a talking pitbull statue, and the spirit world sounds a lot like Photek. I actually feel like the few times I've really even thought about or CONSIDERED spirituality is while on drugs. I wonder what that means. Perhaps... the idea of "is God real?" is too complex of an idea for our little brains to unerstand to begin with, and squeegeeing my third eye is the only way I can even begin to approach such an insane idea. "CHEMICALLY INDUCED ENLIGHTENMENT"? I do know after the first time I tripped I felt like I was on a higher spiritual plane for a while too. Not so much now. I dunno. Gimme some acid and lemme meditate about it while naked and jamming some TOOL and I'll get back to you.

[floatingslowly]

1,000,000 peyote users can't be wrong.

[atsonicpark]

 

[floatingslowly]

once, while in an after-hours dentist chair, hopped up on nitrous oxide, my friend confided to me that he was "in the spirit world" and that it was "just like in Young Guns, dude".

I could still see him. he wasn't whispy looking and there was no ectoplasm. so....no.

[hevusa]

no and neither are near death experiences. it is just the mind failing/being fucked with.
there is ZERO percent objectivity in these cases which renders them useless for anything truly meaningful.

[atsonicpark]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

once, while in an after-hours dentist chair, hopped up on nitrous oxide, my friend confided to me that he was "in the spirit world" and that it was "just like in Young Guns, dude".

I could still see him. he wasn't whispy looking and there was no ectoplasm. so....no.

[encore]

LOOK! IT'S LISA IN THE SKY!


...NO DIAMONDS THOUGH.

[floatingslowly]

I feel that "after hours dentist chair" needs further explaining.

it was after hours. the chair was there. the dentist was not.

ps: hrvussr is going to H-E-double-toothpicks.

[floatingslowly]

nikiki666 and dr eugenics both told me that astonic killed himself.

it was gruesome. blood all over the toilet.

yet here he is. making post like ghost. spirits ring a bell if you can hear me.

I'm
tripping
balls.


so.....yes.

[atsonicpark]

 

[atsonicpark]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

nikiki666 and dr eugenics both told me that astonic killed himself.

you would not BELIEVE how many emails I get with the sentence "Are you dead?" somewhere in the email.

I usually respond, "Uh. Yeah." or some variation of.

[floatingslowly]

I didn't need to ask. I knew that you were/are. it's only through the miracle of DRUGS that I am allowed to communicate with you.

well, DRUGS and BLACK MAGICKS.

[floatingslowly]

so....yes x 2

[atsonicpark]

They didn’t have white onions, because of the war, the only thing you could get was those big yellow ones.

[GeneticKiss]

Originally Posted by hevusa

no and neither are near death experiences. it is just the mind failing/being fucked with.
there is ZERO percent objectivity in these cases which renders them useless for anything truly meaningful.

Here we go.

In answer to the ACTUAL question/subject of the thread, I guess I agree with Inhuman and atsonicpark that it depends on what you get out of the experience. If it's "just" a hallucination rather than actual contact with the spirit world but the experience influences you on a spiritual level, then yes, I guess it counts as a spiritual experience. All roads lead to Rome, as they say.

@ ann ashsway: I know you said you were just curious, but have you experienced this firsthand and are asking for a second opinion on the spiritual "validity" of the experience?