[demonrail666]

Why are so many youths now taking the step from fighting one another over the local park to killing one another with knives. I don't buy the whole poverty argument, nor do I sympathise with the whole 'alienation' one. But something is going on that seems very different to what's taken place in recent times. I can honestly say that, growing up in what is now a particular problem area regarding youth-related knife crime, that I honestly never knew of a single incident in which a kid was stabbed by another kid.

I was in a cab today where the driver told me that his teenaged son had just been stabbed outside of his school. This took place in the relatively suburban, quiet area of Raynes Park. The cab driver was roughly my age and so the conversation inevitably descended into the usual 'not in my day' pattern. And yet I consider myself quite a rational and sceptical soul, not given over easily to flights of nostalgia. And yet, in this instance, I feel that something has changed within the mindset of large sections of today's youth. I just don't know why or how.

It's easy and counterproductive to blow all of this out of proportion, but equally it's convenient, naive, and in the end dangerous to brush it aside and pretend that something isn't taking place.

[Rob Instigator]

it is not just the youth, EVERYONE today, especially people who do not, or chose not to, use critical thinking, have been taught for decades that all that matter is the self, self-esteem, money, and one's opwn personal value.

life, in general, is not a thing to be admired, to be resopected and to be in awe of. life is just a state of being to these losers, and to kill or stab someopne over the merest trifling thing, is commonplace again, like it was when life was truly cheap, quick and rough.

how is this progress huh?

[Cantankerous]

kids are stupid.

end of.

[EMMAh]

I know people who have been stabbed and even someone who stabbed someone. A kid I went to school with, well his brother was stabbed and killed on a city bus a few years back.

Sometimes I'm sure I'd feel safer if I walked around with a knife, but honestly the more people there are who walk around with knives the more likely someone is to get stabbed.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by Cantankerous

kids are stupid.

end of.

Kids were stupid when I was growing up too. I was stupid. Definitely. But there's a difference between being stupid and stabbing someone out of some kind of 'disrespect' issue.

[Cantankerous]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Kids were stupid when I was growing up too. I was stupid. Definitely. But there's a difference between being stupid and stabbing someone out of some kind of 'disrespect' issue.

kids are stupider.

end of.

[Everyneurotic]

kids are angrier, more ignorant and more violent.

beating someone to a pulp is not enough to demonstrate power? i don't know, i find that completely retarded.

[terriblecanyons]

Ignorance is almost celebrated these days... which probably has something to do with it.

[demonrail666]

I can't say I understand exactly what it is, but this whole thing about 'respect' and 'honour' seems to be a big part of the problem. Ironically, the people that crave 'respect' the most are invariably those least able to extend it to others.

[acousticrock87]

In all honesty, it seems to me that it's based in poor upbringings--which could be poverty, but it could also be bad parenting or a bad family life. If it starts in one family, it's very easy for the child to continue, and worsen, the cycle to the point of violence.

In poor areas, that cycle is prominent because there's a lot of anger at seemingly helpless situations. I've also heard testimony from L.A. gang bangers that there's really not much else to do in their part of town. It's join a gang, or do nothing all day.

[demonrail666]

Although LA clearly isn't the UK, much of what goes on here does seem to be an attempt to emulate an attitude that stems from US gang culture. Although on a much grander scale, the whole drive-by phenomenon (which thankfully has never really taken hold in the UK) still seems to be an underlying influence.

I'm not ruling poverty or boredom out as a factor. I just think that there's something more going on here. Again, lack of money and things to do were a fact of life when I was growing up, but its effects on behaviour seem far different to what they are today.

[screamingskull]

A couple of people got stabbed when i was in school. In 2002 a girl got stabbed with a fork in the play ground. Sounds funny, or at least it did at the time "dude, she got stabbed in the arm with a fork". Now seems kinda scary. In 2003 a boy got stabbed with a knife in the leg in the playground.

Thinking about it, my school was pretty dangerous, quite a few people carried knives, and made it know.

A boy got his jaw broken in a fight in the play ground.
Another boy smashed his arm through a window and his whole wrist was totally slashed, the skin was basically hanging from his arm. But the kids i went to school with had unity with each other, everyone knew the kids that had knives or weed or worse, but no one told.

There were some really bad science room experiments gone very bad too whilst i was there.

[demonrail666]

This perfectly sums up my school days.

Oh and Daniel Kitson is a genius, BTW.

[acousticrock87]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Although LA clearly isn't the UK, much of what goes on here does seem to be an attempt to emulate an attitude that stems from US gang culture. Although on a much grander scale, the whole drive-by phenomenon (which thankfully has never really taken hold in the UK) still seems to be an underlying influence.

I'm not ruling poverty or boredom out as a factor. I just think that there's something more going on here. Again, lack of money and things to do were a fact of life when I was growing up, but its effects on behaviour seem far different to what they are today.

Right, but I think it builds over generations. In America, at least, your generation was still more dangerous than the previous one.

It's kind of like censorship on TV. It starts out with little blips here and there, letting a shoulder slip, then a few mild swear word, and eventually no one cares about anything anymore. Not that that's a bad thing, but it seemed like a decent metaphor. If a bored and angry kid grows up to be a bored and angry father, there's a good chance he'll raise an even angrier kid.

[Everyneurotic]

not just poor upbringing, but detached and ignorant upbringing might be another factor.

[!@#$%!]

kids are being raised by the tv, not by parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles like the used to be.

nuclear families where nobody is home & ask the little shit "where have you been all day?" etc.

when i was a kid, not only was i surrounded by numberless relatives thoughout the day, but also my parents knew who i hanged out with & what not-- i mean we ran wild on the street, without real "supervision", but we always got debriefed at dinner time.

if i had said "oh my friend X is packing knives", the shit would have hit the fan.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by acousticrock87

Right, but I think it builds over generations. In America, at least, your generation was still more dangerous than the previous one.

It's kind of like censorship on TV. It starts out with little blips here and there, letting a shoulder slip, then a few mild swear word, and eventually no one cares about anything anymore. Not that that's a bad thing, but it seemed like a decent metaphor. If a bored and angry kid grows up to be a bored and angry father, there's a good chance he'll raise an even angrier kid.

I agree that there seems to be an accumulation of cuntishness as time moves on. But then we can look at the Victorian era where things were clearly far worse than they are now. The seventies, when I was growing up, is another interesting period. That was an extremely violent decade, but in a very different way to the way in which violence seems to exist today. I remember football hooligans, skinheads, people getting mugged by rastas. But school children simply weren't a group that were feared then the way they are now.

[screamingskull]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

kids are being raised by the tav, not by parents

Like that episode of the simpsons where the kids are asked to give homer a hug after he is accused of sexual assault on TV. Lisa says "Sorry dad, it's just so hard not to listen to TV, it's spent so much more time raising us than you have"

[Alex's Trip]

Most of these stabbings, I'm assuming, are involved with male heterosexuals. And in the teen male culture, the only emotion other than...happiness, that is really allowed or accepted among peers is anger. Everything becomes anger. I've seen it first hand. If it isn't good, it's anger. And the lack of good parenting, the high divorce rates, even the sensationalized violence and even just adventure/danger in the 21st century has got to contribute to that.

The kids are brainwashed, stupid, angry, and they living dangerously helps them get over it. But inevitably someone gets hurt.

[acousticrock87]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I agree that there seems to be an accumulation of cuntishness as time moves on. But then we can look at the Victorian era where things were clearly far worse than they are now. The seventies, when I was growing up, is another interesting period. That was an extremely violent decade, but in a very different way to the way in which violence seems to exist today. I remember football hooligans, skinheads, people getting mugged by rastas. But school children simply weren't a group that were feared then the way they are now.

Perhaps it means that it's just a cycle, and that there's hope. We're just getting adjusted to the era's changes and it happens to be affecting that demographic most.

Baby riots in 2050, eh?