[Genteel Death]

*
In the womb we all start off as female.* People who come out as little boys are changed during the pregnancy when testosterone is introduced.* The clitoris grows and becomes penis, and the labia becomes a scrotum.* Woman are so-called because they're meant to be like men, but with wombs- womb-man.* But in reality, men are women with big clitorises.* Bigclits.* Most people come out with either a vagina or a penis, but some people are somewhere inbetween- these people are 'intersex'.* As soon as we're born boys and girls are treated drasticallly differently- boys are given lego, girls are given dolls (and then people wonder about the lack of female engineers); girls are encouraged to care and talk about their feelings, whilst boys are told to be tough.* Every boy and girl, to some extent, has to grapple with the difference between who they are, and what a Real Man is.* What a Real Woman is.* Every body suffers from the invention of the Man and the Woman.* And I consider myself an extreme casualty of this- I don't really consider myself a Man- but I know, violently, that I'm not a woman.* I think that transpeople generally are an extreme casualty of this problem.
*
Society is organised into men and women and I don't fit into either.* If I were to have to go to prison, I could either* be a man in an all female prison, or a man with a vagina in an all male-prison where privacy is not exactly a priority.* If I were to be arrested and strip-searched I've got a choice between a male officer or a female police officer.* But I'm not a man, that is not my sex, I am a transexual.* There is now a Gender Recognition Certificate so that I can be recognised as either a Man or a Woman by the state.* But I am not a Man or a Woman, I am a transexual.* I could be treated as a man, go to a male prison, be searched by a male officer, get married to a woman.* But I don't want to get married, I don't want to live in a society where people are sent to prison and strip searched by police.* I don't believe in leading a fight where we're asking to government to deal with us more efficiently, to oppress us better.* I don't want to be integrated better a rotten system, a want something different altogether.* I want to take part in creating a better world.

[EVOLghost]

4 different threads? seriously man? I know thye're different...but...ya know.....

[Rob Instigator]

It is true. we are all "female" in the womb until the testosterone turns some in male genders.

It is good that society has bene talking a bout this stuff fro decades now though, how gender identity is flexible and not determined solely by possession of a pussy or a cock.


I thought the word "woman" came from "wombat" cuz them ladies is batshit crazy?

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

It is true. we are all "female" in the womb until the testosterone turns some in male genders.

It is good that society has bene talking a bout this stuff fro decades now though, how gender identity is flexible and not determined solely by possession of a pussy or a cock.


I thought the word "woman" came from "wombat" cuz them ladies is batshit crazy?

So it's got nothing to do with X and Y chromosomes then?

[Rob Instigator]

the X & Y chromosomes determine whether or not that initial dose of testosterone is delivered, but there are people with XX and penises, and there are people with XY and vaginas or hermaphrodites, and there are XXY and XYY and all sorts of other "mutations."

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

*
In the womb we all start off as female.* People who come out as little boys are changed during the pregnancy when testosterone is introduced.* The clitoris grows and becomes penis, and the labia becomes a scrotum.* Woman are so-called because they're meant to be like men, but with wombs- womb-man.* But in reality, men are women with big clitorises.* Bigclits.* Most people come out with either a vagina or a penis, but some people are somewhere inbetween- these people are 'intersex'.* As soon as we're born boys and girls are treated drasticallly differently- boys are given lego, girls are given dolls (and then people wonder about the lack of female engineers); girls are encouraged to care and talk about their feelings, whilst boys are told to be tough.* Every boy and girl, to some extent, has to grapple with the difference between who they are, and what a Real Man is.* What a Real Woman is.* Every body suffers from the invention of the Man and the Woman.* And I consider myself an extreme casualty of this- I don't really consider myself a Man- but I know, violently, that I'm not a woman.* I think that transpeople generally are an extreme casualty of this problem.
*
Society is organised into men and women and I don't fit into either.* If I were to have to go to prison, I could either* be a man in an all female prison, or a man with a vagina in an all male-prison where privacy is not exactly a priority.* If I were to be arrested and strip-searched I've got a choice between a male officer or a female police officer.* But I'm not a man, that is not my sex, I am a transexual.* There is now a Gender Recognition Certificate so that I can be recognised as either a Man or a Woman by the state.* But I am not a Man or a Woman, I am a transexual.* I could be treated as a man, go to a male prison, be searched by a male officer, get married to a woman.* But I don't want to get married, I don't want to live in a society where people are sent to prison and strip searched by police.* I don't believe in leading a fight where we're asking to government to deal with us more efficiently, to oppress us better.* I don't want to be integrated better a rotten system, a want something different altogether.* I want to take part in creating a better world.

part 1, anybody knowing biology knows this.

part 2 is true, it's a social thing.

i have a transgender friend, and while she started life as a very feminine boy she's now a she. it's not hard to call her she because she's fucking gorgeous.

her partner is also transgender--formerly a woman. sure he doesn't look as macho as most, but he's still a he.

still, the pronouns do not contain all the nuances of their genders and their struggles to somehow "fit" into a gender container. they themselves struggle to identify with these polarities, i think.

it's hard to think of people in terms of little boxes. it's more of a convenience really, which is another word for lazy thinking. but i don't think it's a "rotten" system in itself. it's perhaps primitive, unsophisticated, unrefined, ignorant, dense, but not "rotten" in the way we think of this, as corruption-- that is a whole different story.

the word that bugs me (here in america) is "race"

"what race are you?"

fuck if i know. human? 5% neanderthal 95% cro-magnon?

[SONIC GAIL]

Did I spark these thoughts genteel?
I see ryan struggle with those "real man" thoughts. We are in the south as you know and men are expected to go get bluecollar 9 to 5 jobs to support their family. He has his own business and only has to work 2 or 3 days a week leaving him with the responsibility of the kids while I am at work 40 hrs a week. He's quittin that shit as soon as we get our music ready for some shows. I did not marry a 9 to 5 man and I am NOT a housewife. Fuck society's standards.