[jetengine]

Originally Posted by Torn Curtain

You can't place on the same level beatniks (who are individualists) and hippies (who have a - stupid - sense of community).

Whoo...that's a complex issue: At what point and under what circumstances did 'hippie' branch off from 'beat'? Is 'beat' primarily right-wing/social libertarian and individualist, while 'hippie' is intrinsically left-wing/restrictive and socialist? I don't think I want to visit those issues right now!--although they have been sitting there contentiously in the back of my mind since high school!

[batreleaser]

all this over the doors. a shitty bar band with a drunken faux-poet for a lead singer. at least his voice didnt suck complete shit.

[batreleaser]

and the stooges 30 percent crap? welp might as well not even argue with this statement. listen a few more times and tell us if you still feel the same way.

Originally Posted by Insignificant

Actually, Roxy Music, especially Eno, had a huge influence on bands from Sheffield, many of which went on to become pop stars of the day (Heaven 17, The Human League, etc.). Mostly it was the use of technology and oddball production, but one might say the same of Can on PiL.

Unless stupidity decided to reign supreme on this board, I didn't imply in my previous post that Roxy Music didn't have any influence on bands from Sheffield or not. They aren't a particular example to single out, though. Jesus.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by batreleaser

and the stooges 30 percent crap? welp might as well not even argue with this statement. listen a few more times and tell us if you still feel the same way.

been listening for 15 years. 25-30% of the songs on their albums are plain vanilla garage rock.

[jetengine]

Originally Posted by batreleaser

all this over the doors. a shitty bar band with a drunken faux-poet for a lead singer. at least his voice didnt suck complete shit.

"...A shitty bar band..."...? Now I know you're out to lunch! If that's what you call a "shitty bar band"--a group that performs complex, finger-testing, stop-on-a-dime numbers like 'Spanish Caravan', 'When The Music's Over' and 'Light My fire'--then all I can say is "bring on the shitty bar bands!" You have the nerve or the ignorance to refer to The Doors as "a shitty bar band" in comparison to The Stooges and The Velvet Underground?!! For Christ's sakes, go actually listen to the albums of all three groups for a change! Manzarek--analogous to John Cale--is a classically trained pianist. John Densmore is a superb drummer who supplied the jazz backbeat. Krieger is generally regarded as one of the greatest guitarists to come out of that era--Is there any style of music he can't play? Morrison a "faux poet"...? A man whom Michael McClure has referred to as "the greatest poet of his generation"...? A man who has appeared in The Paris Review...? The only thing I can figure is that you're one of those people who appraises talent with a 180-degrees opposite set of criteria than the norm--i.e., someone who who would consider Johnny Ramone a better guitarist than Jimi Hendrix or Eric Clapton; or Plan 9 From Outer Space a better film than 400 Blows or La Dolce Vita. There have been quite a few people taking this sort of approach to the popular arts ever since punk hit in the mid '70s. It's a sort of 'sour grapes' approach that's difficult for sensible folks to comprehend or do battle with: we're simply not on the same page. Also, you sound as if you're taking a lot of your quotes and influence from semi-erroneous popular culture, without actually listening to the records. "...A drunken faux poet..." sounds a hell of a lot like something one would pick up after watching Cameron Crowe's Almost Famous--which has a fictionalised portrayal of bitter, jealous, socially atrophied rock critic Lester Bangs, who had a penchant for celebrating (perceived) losers--a few times too many. Let me ask you, Mr. Batreleaser--considering as how you're not only a renowned music critic but also a poetry expert--What would you consider to be Morrison's most accomplished work? The surrealistic dreamscapes contained in The New Creatures or the more self-revealing outcries found in the posthumous volumes Wilderness and The American Night? I won't hold my breath. Like so many others out there, youre just trying to 'sound cool' by associating with a certain dogmatic clique, throwing arrows with little arms at targets you're not even familiar with. I would not be a tad bit surprised to discover that not only have you not read Morrison's books or listened to all the original Doors releases from start to finish, but you haven't even heard as much as 35% of the recorded output by the groups you are so quick to applaud--Velvets, Stooges, etc.--in order to fit into some silly little typecasted clique, allowing you to feel as if you 'belong'. Pathetic....

[jetengine]

Originally Posted by groar

jetengine regarding Jimbo as fake drunk poet is called opinion,it doesn't need to be informed up the ass like you are,it could be a hair trigger response to hearing it.I wouldn't give a care,if evry single other person on the planet "regarded" the Doors as the offical band of all time.You like the Doors,we got's it-yr probably Ray.And who gives a dickless bitch about influence-the world of music as we know it does not revolve around the Doors.Plus I hate poetry,trying to say something? The ghost of my dead friend will haunt me over that one.And you can go straight back to where you aren't.If these people liked the Doors,they'd listen-it's beyond reason-you dumbass brain fart.And if they liked the Doors and apprectiated them as much as your lil' ear drums,and your heart ,then you cud form a mutual admiration society,and be so Totally Awesome.

Now you're going overboard--I'm not Ray Manzarek's press secretary!

[Rob Instigator]

people are strange, man

[Rob Instigator]

they are not POETRY, they are lyrics.
wildly different

[Torn Curtain]

Originally Posted by groar

Jim considered himsoi a poet,you didn't know thit.I like lyrics,me no like poetry.
What makes la Stooges more interesting,first of all they come from Michigan,a natural fact that gives them an advantage at birth.
Jim and Ray,I know great guitarists who comply with jetengines surmises about the what's his names playing.I've heard it,I evens thought it was cool-I have no interest in hearing it ever again,I would avoid hearing it,I don't want to hear it. Those guys were trying to be profound,and ambiguous and a trip,and far out,and deep,and sketchy and misunderstood,and in the end the tried my patience for listening to them wack off,in a circle.
And Why even compare Ed Wood with Fellini-they're both bores.Goddard too,except for 2 movies.I prefer movies made by people you never even heard of,and the horror movies playing in my brain at night when I sleep so good.To have you here-you are like sugar on fire.I'm sorry about the licking Ray's ball,it's perfectly natural to desire that flesh,it's all flesh-but the flesh of a master artist who lived to tell the tales.OMG

What drug are you on ?

[jetengine]

Originally Posted by groar

I don't do drugs. Don't say it "caffeine's a drug" ,"Caffeine's a drug,nicotine's a drug." what movie is that line from?

David Lynch's Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me (1992)

[UVRAY]

Originally Posted by batreleaser

theyre both brilliant, cale is indeed a better composer, but lou reed is a songwriter and had a vision.

the velvet underground was the best band of all time, they influenced everything we listen too.

The voice of reason.

Absolutely.

Technically speaking I would say Cale is more of the musically talented.

But Lou Reed is a genuine artist - he has vision and creativity. To charge him with being a charlatan is blind ignorance; he clearly has dedication to his own artistic vision and integrity.

Both great. Both genuine and both two of the most influencial and important artists spanning the last 5 decades.

[UVRAY]

>> I don't think The Velvets, The Stooges, The Doors, MC5, Led Zeppelin or even The Beatles can match Roxy Music when it comes to influence <<

What absolute twaddle.

That is not even worth entering into further debate.

[atari 2600]

That you are.

[jetengine]

Originally Posted by UVRAY

>> I don't think The Velvets, The Stooges, The Doors, MC5, Led Zeppelin or even The Beatles can match Roxy Music when it comes to influence <<

What absolute twaddle.

That is not even worth entering into further debate.

You have listened to the radio, visited the record stores, and watched the music channels over the past 30 years, have you not...? The period from roughly '73 through '87 is virtually owned by Roxy Music, on both sides of the Atlantic. Their direct influence can be heard and seen in everything from glam to prog to punk to disco to new wave to no wave to goth to new romantic to techno to hair metal. And no, I'm not some major Roxy Music fan trying to build a case for them as 'greatest band of all time' or what-have-you, just telling it objectively like it is.

Originally Posted by jetengine

You have listened to the radio, visited the record stores, and watched the music channels over the past 30 years, have you not...? The period from roughly '73 through '87 is virtually owned by Roxy Music, on both sides of the Atlantic. Their direct influence can be heard and seen in everything from glam to prog to punk to disco to new wave to no wave to goth to new romantic to techno to hair metal. And no, I'm not some major Roxy Music fan trying to build a case for them as 'greatest band of all time' or what-have-you, just telling it objectively like it is.