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Originally Posted by Savage Clone

I know what you mean, and I can see some of that, but I will say that part of the reason "academics" are held in contempt by the rest of society is because they often speak from the smug and blanketed perspective of someone who is able to live in a vacuum of esoterica, blissfully uninvolved with survival in the outside world. It's a highly self-congratulatory environment filled with individuals patting each other on the back for being able to live in a world where they are paid to do little else but pass along their particular minute obsession to generations of fresh-faced youngsters who are mortgaging their own futures with student loans they will be paying off for decades to come, instead of buying homes for themselves.

well maybe, but i think it's because most people prefer sports and cheeseburgers. in other countries, instead of fox news loudmouths you have public intellectuals commenting on current events and what not. writers get buried in the national cemeteries instead of next to gas stations. streets are named after painters, poets, philosophers. here instead fox news denounces the "cultural elite" and drives the populace to support a stupid war.

also while i know and detest the vacuum of intellectual wankery, i can tell the difference between that and a lively, passionate and yes, esoteric discussion between people who care about a subject. nothing wrong with esoteric-- on the contrary-- i like elites because they contribute what nobody else can. for example, when you and scott v discuss music here it makes a pretty interesting read. i'm sure some people who feel threatened by what they ignore will think you two are showing off, but i think it's obvious to most of us that this is a genuine interest. i say more esoteric discussions and less stupidity is what we need.

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

I wish there were more specialized programs for writing degrees like we have for art schools and tech schools, where the whole "liberal arts" component could be voluntary instead of mandatory. I just may have had the patience to complete the program had I not had to waste time and money on useless requirements I didn't care about that supposedly make me such a "well-rounded" individual now.
I got enough of the world of academic requirements in high school.
One should be able to design one's own curriculum (you know, a set number of credits in a set of levels within a particular area of interest) when one is shelling out so many thousands of dollars.

eh man, there are such programs, for sure, and great schools for it. ut at austin has a graduate program funded by best-selling hack james michener that teaches tv, film/theatre and ficiton writing in 14 months-- no poets reading to poets-- it's professionally oriented. there are also great schools of journalism, some in affordable state schools. my own writing program, though in a mediocre university (being a foreigner i could afford no better), was pretty good due to the presence of some very interesting poets and the grad students it attracted (those grad students were often our teachers). "liberal arts" as a MAJOR is a pretty loose cluster of courses for people who don't know what to do. a "liberal arts education" however does not need to imply that you'll be operating a fryer at macshit when you graduate-- you can be an architect and immerse yourself in art history on the side (not that there are many jobs for architects but that's another story), go to law school and get a fat helping of victorian novels on the way, etc-- 2 different things. i had a student who was going for medschool & was taking spanish literature courses & enjoying the process. i also know there are schools that let you design your own curriculum, if you so need. so it's not all a cesspool out there.

anyway, im shirking work, ha ha... i'd better get out of here & make some money... this has been an enjoyable exchange btw. i hope dazedcola picks up some useful pointers to avoid some of the pitfalls mentioned.