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Originally Posted by gualbert
A person worth of very little interest.
Simply because the gospels doesn't report much of what she did, and nothing of what she said.
Thus she became a subject for myths, fantasies, theories etc.
Why no one gives a damn about Joseph, I have no ideas.
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but that is not true at ALL! There are dozens of gospel narratives (in the various Synaxariums, Missal prayer books, catechism texts, law books, and also the so-called lost and/or apocryphal gospels) that only the Protestant tradition hold as non-canonical, where as the Orthodox and Catholics hold them to be as divine as the so-called "Bible" The authority of the Canon is a relative term, hence the purpose of this thread, to have a nice, open discussion.
I think the most common thing I see on these kinds of threads is people (even who don't believe in it) turning to the Bible for the answer, but that is not necessarily appropriate, in fact is just baggage from the Protestant movement which was not religious at all but rather economical (after all, who wanted to pay taxes to the Church anyways
) Christianity is not entirely limited by the Bible, it is a rich legacy of culture and tradition found in oral histories, paintings, architecture, hymn/song, and many other Church books and writings that are "extra-biblical" and yet by no means unauthoritative. There are authentic Church letters and Writings that are in fact older than any New Testament copies..
Further, in the New Testament itself both Jesus and the Apostles specifically mention for folks not only to follow the "bible" but to adhere to the
traditions and teachings which are received from the past.
And in Catholic Saint Joseph is a patron saint of many churches, hospitals, orphanages etc etc
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Originally Posted by ann ashtray
When I was 20 I would have said she was a symbol of rape. Raped by god, and then man raped as a result (if you believe the "story").
When I was 24 I would have stated that I didn't care.
Now, I just think she might have been a woman that actually existed (maybe), but has this misfortune of being carved in history by fictitious bullshit. But really...I still don;t care that much.
You don't get pregnant w/out the aid of dick. I doubt god has a dick. Does god need a dick? And even if he did, he's god...why would he wanna fuck anyone on this planet? If he did want to, I'm sure he'd already fucked Eve...I mean, IF YA REALLY BELIEVE THIS SHIT....Eve had to be to most beautiful woman ever...'cause she was the first. Designed soley by god from the rib of Adam and not hand-me-down genetics.
People look retarded.
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I completely knew someone would post this, I was even meditating about it during the Mass earlier today.
True, in some aspects, the Virgin Mary is indeed a symbol of male domination/oppression over women, culminating in the most offensive act of this male dominance, rape. Further the Virgin's submission to the act and the subsequent child can be interpreted by some as being symbolic of male dominance over women in culture, politics, sexuality etc etc In respects this may be true, but that is the result of certain groups who have used and exploited the imagery and symbolism of the Virgin Mary to use it towards these ends. The symbol itself is not necessarily intertwined with this concept. After all, who said the Bald Eagle has to be the symbol of American dominance over the world? And yet that is what America has used it for, to paste it across the world as an image and tangible symbol of its oppressive hold over the world...
And by the way, yes, in the Church we have many hymns which directly speak of the significance of the Virgin having been the most beautiful and attractive of women (spiritually of course
) to have attracted the attention of God.
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Originally Posted by amerikangod
The holy grail of MILFs.
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how expectedly freudian of you, but yes, I would very much agree that men orient themselves around the Virgin in the same way men orient themselves around fertility goddesses of the past..
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Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
Mary is the Catholic Church's answer to the myriad earth mother/mother worship cults that have existed throughout human time.
It is only right to worship the female, for the female brings new life. the male does not. However, in patriarchal society and in severely patriarchal organized judeo/christian religion, where women are NOT allowed to be priests/talk to "god", but are also completely subjugated as secondary citizens, as crap leftover after the creation of MAN, as the tempters of MAN who essentially took humanity away from the grace of god in the garden of eden, Mary is the bone
Just as the early church (the seat of all that is wrong with christianity) co-opted the Mithras holiday/winter solstice to use as their messiah's "birthday", they co-opted the Goddess/Earth Mother by introducing a supposedly ALSO virgin born woman, who gave a virgin birth to the son of god. Neat trick. It has worked very well and helped kill all pagan competition.
In many countries worship of the Goddess/Mary continues with more furor than worshuip of god/Jeebus. Mexico being one example.
The Bible tells of a woman who was a virgin and gave birth. it tells nothing of her being born froma virgin herself, nor does it say that Joseph, her HUSBAND, did not fuck her brains out soon after, and had more children.
many aprocryphal writings talk of jesus' brothers and sisters. mary got that pussy waxed.
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I see you paid attention well at catechism, you know your shit, and thats saying something, you know I teach that shit?
In the Church we do not necessarily believe that Mary is the olden time fertility goddesses, but we do acknowledge that being a women, having the creative forces in harmony, that God could have
only used a woman to create God incarnate, for that is precisely the mechanism in which God(s) always did such.
The Virgin Mary in early Church symbolism was Universally the Ark of the Covenant, Our Lady Sion, who held the Tablets of Stone and was the Dwelling Place of the God-head, just as the Word of God (Jesus Christ) came incarnate of the egg in the two ovaries (tablets of stone inscribed with the DNA of God/Jesus) birthed the Savior in the Womb, which is the Ark itself. See it is a bit more theologically complicated then simply fertility goddesses, who are the source of creativity, in this instance, she is not the source of any or every or all creativity, rather ALL women are such in God(s) mechanisms, but the Virgin represents a specific junction, a time and place where the Divine interacted with the Human.
You are deeper than the waves at redondo beach my brotha, I always enjoy your contributions..
Interesting enough, to flip on its head the theme of male oppression expressed above, what about the very fact that the images and veneration and prayers and hymns to and in honor of the Virgin exist? Does not that by its very nature EMPOWER women? It gives them a symbol to identify with and further cements their place in the community and the institution. My priest flipped it on me like that one day when we were talking about women being oppressed by Ethiopian Church culture and he laughed at me and said, "Who do you think lights all those candles early in the morning?" Just because the women are priests standing up wearing costumes, does not mean they are not playing integral and critical roles in the Church, albeit a bit more behind the scenes. We all play our parts in the world, even if they seem small in comparison to others. Just because the President has a better job than me, does not inherently make him better in the society then me, in fact if anything, being the Priest can backfire, the Priest gets all the static whether he did anything or not, where as the quiet women cooking, tending to the children and maintaining all the religious/cultural festivals (in my Church the women organize and orchestrate EVERY feast, celebration, baptismal luncheons, funerary wakes, Saint's days etc etc) rarely get static for anything, after all, it isn't polite to back-talk your mothers
good thread y'all, much thanks for taking it rather seriously
