Bands that used to suck but now rock VS bands that used to rock but now suck
 

Black Keys. These dudes used to suck. These dudes used to suck bad. I've ditched their set as the opening band twice because I didn't like them. Well, once I didn't go in, the other time I tried to stand through it but I just was like meh.. so I went outside and toked it in the parking lot and came back in later. Then after Attack and Release, these guys are bad! This shit kicks ass! And too think, they used to open for bands at the Henry Fonda and now they are about the be headlining at the Staples Center as if they were the Lakers!

Radiohead. I just don't dig their first few albums but I after OK Computer I really like it. There are a lot of haters, but popularity does that.

Now for the suck column..

The Casualties: These guys were a kick ass crust band. Then their mohawks became a fashion and their music a cliche. At least the Subhumans and the Varukers aged gracefully and are still interesting and relevant.

System of a Down: Their self-titled debut is still one of the greatest albums I have ever heard. It was such a unique combination of so many elements of sound, and it was heavy as shit. Then every thing after has just sort of sucked..

your turn..

Band of Horses. Their debut is an indie-rock classic and everything they've done since blows chunks.

Jimi Tenor started out well, then got more experimental than his talent allowed for.

Yeah soad's first album is amazing. I still dig their other stuff though. Fun fucking music.

There are not many artists I listen whose material from the beginning to middle I don´t like at all, but here´s few kind of:

Sielun Veljet - I really don´t understand that band at first at all (the reason is I was ten years old when they came so I wasn´t at the right age). Then they made their acoustic album Suomi-Finland in 1988 and I realised how great they were! And I started also love their earlier material (their first album from 1983 is really great, a true Finnish accompanion to Birthday Party´s Prayers in Fire, only SV debut has something real deep Finnish, something very shamanistic).

Regina - I really didn´t like their only-machine-made pop at all. Then in their third album they started to add natural instruments and I think also the music changed little bit deeper. I don´t still like their earlier material.

the Beatles - Well, this is sort of. There was period, when I think their before Rubber Soul -material isn´t as serious as the after-material. Now I love them all.

John Parish - I think he was quite mediocre with his band Automatic Dlamini, but when he started his solo career, he has been brilliant!

And then the now sucks...(there are quite many of them, here´s few)

Stooges - their sixties/seventies material is just great. Weirdness don´t sound Stooges at all. Why they didn´t make it under some other name or Iggy´s solo?

Red Hot Chili Peppers - Sad example, how band full of energy turned into very boring middle-aged ballad band. I´m glad there are some great artists to whom that didn´t happend at least so badly, of course no-one can´t be forever angry young band. For example Sonic Youth, Nick Cave, Dr. John and the Who have made great albums also in the old age. Tom Waits is a funny exception; he was much more serene in the seventies than now!

Rush - I don´t say they totally suck now, but I have had no reason to listen their albums after Presto.

Genesis - They were very great in the seventies (with Peter Gabriel) then they turned slowly towards AOR. Well, I like a little bit their "We Can´t Dance"-album, but after Phil Collins material has been just boring.

Jimi Tenor - This is already mentioned. I really love his band Jimi Tenor and his Shamans, but somehow I haven´t like his solos very much. And the last albums I´ve heard (that are based on the African tradion) just don´t hit me because I think Jimi just can´t achieve them the right mood and feelings. Maybe because he´s not African born (of course there are exceptions, for example sixties band Love sound real English altough they´re Americans).

I don´t have any need to be loyal to any artists. It just so that I love almost every material Sy has made. If they will make album that is full of songs like Thunderclap for Bobby Pyn, I´m not gonna love it.

ouch...



sonic is and forever will be great.

That wasn't loyalty either that was fanboy_ism

Ye. I understand. But SY just hit at the perfect time I guess.....


I have nothing but unconditional love for SY.

The Casualties always sucked. Nothing "crusty" about them. Just stupid fucks sporting mohawks ramblin' on about booze and "oi" in virtually every song. They aren't punk, they are tools. They've taken every iconic punk rock cliche...from lyrics to look, and have repetitively made themselves look like the morons that they are.

I wouldn't say System of Down ever "sucked", but they were always boring as all fuck. Oooh, let's add some weird middle eastern vibe to what the Dead Kennedy's were doing 20 years ago. BORING!

As far as Black Keys, I honestly think they used to be wayyyy better than what they are now. They're still OK, just feel much more safe.

Good call Murmer on Gang of Four, Misfits, and kind of on Sonic Youth... Not that they've ever released a BAD album, they just had a period of hit or miss, dull or exciting, between Washing Machine and The Eternal that ended a streak of always incredible albums before that. The Eternal, being as great as it is, keeps them from being on any list of decliners.

USED TO SUCK:
Big Black
My Bloody Valentine

SUCK NOW:
The Raveonettes
The Yeah Yeah Yeahs
Jesus and Mary Chain (there's already a thread about this, but yeah)
The Cure

I think I have said this million times, but I say it once again. This "Sonic Youth has turned to shit" is really hard to me understand, because I think there hasn´t been very big changes in their music since EVOL. I think their every album is a little bit different, but all of them has that regognizable SY-sound. OK, they have become more mature, but I think it´s quite natural, I think they will sound very ridiculous if they try to sound today like they sound in 1985. Also these "SY turned to shit" are ridiculous in my opinion, because somebody thinks they turned to shit after BMR, somebody thinks after EJSANS and somebody thinks after Nurse. So there is no sense.

And I think they have had mediocre songs in their albums already in the beginning, I think "Making Nature Scene", "Ghost Bitch" and "Justice is Might" are very mediocre songs, but fit well in the album entities like "Thunderclap" and "What we Know" fit into Eternal. I´m sorry if I said badly about something that is holy to somebody.

oh come on... you can't say that the songs on rather ripped would've made sense on EVOL. They've had at least two major stylistic periods since then. The shift between them was slow, which is why people have identified different albums beyond which things got boring: But the fact remains that SY went through a time in the 90s where their albums started getting boring.

And asskiss, listen to the original songs on "Lungs" and you'll see what I mean... A lot of it had to do with bad recording conditions and inappropriate equipment, but it's still totally awful. Even Steve Albini has said so

Guns n Roses decline has been pretty steep (regardless of where you ranked them in the beginning).

Surely the list of bands that were great but became shit is almost never ending? Isn't that just what bands do?

Some of the songs on Lungs are REALLY great live at Big Black's peak, so the greatness is definetly there... Maybe expecting to hear Big Black epicness and getting the pitiful whine of Lungs makes the leap seems additionally insurmountable. In any case, those recordings make me cringe.

And pookie's totally right... the list of bands that went from good to bad is the same as the ones on the list of bands who fall into the category of "I liked their first album, but their later stuff is meh.", and that's applicable to MOST bands with multiple albums, because they stuff the first LP with the tried-and-true singles that made them well-known enough to get a record deal. Having to work for deadlines and meet the demands of record companies is enough to stunt the creativity of even the best bands after they're been squeezed for enough albums. Unless you're The Fall or Ty Segall and can pump out three albums a year just from scraping together the singles that accumulate every week. Or you're Sonic Youth and can tweak your style or rely on a formula with enough dexterity to keep albums good for decades.

Fact! Can anybody say there are some facts in music? I think they´re opinions.

Maybe I´m deaf, but I can´t hear lot of difference between Reena and Starpower. Both are very beatiful, melodic pieces, well maybe there is a little bit more creepy guitar in the middle of Starpower.

Can you describe me what those stylistic changes are? I think SY started with making some sense in the middle of chaos and noise (1st album, CIS, BMR) then added melodies (that I love the most) then (EVOL, Sister). In DDN they added elements of conventional rock and in Washing Machine they went back to more experimental style. The high point of experimentalism was NYC ghosts and I am glad they again took melodic elements back in Murray Street. So there has been changes, but I won´t call them stylistic changes.

Anyway the point of my writings is not that everybody should like every Sonic album, although it´s hard to understand why someone not like Eternal if he liked for example Goo. The point is that I think too many music fans (also too many music reviewers) are like children who get angry when their favourite artists refuse to full their needs anymore. Many have said here, they have right to expect great albums from SY. They´re wrong, SY can make album full of country-covers or even dull Chris Rea-style ballads if they like and it´s none of fucking business.

I think this is very common opinion and also true in the most cases, but there are artists who seem to continue making good music also in the old age. I think there are too many music fans, who just don´t listen some artist only for that reason he has been in the musicbisness over ten or more years.

I don't have the knowledge or vocabulary to describe stylistic differences but, to my ears anyway, Reena sounds like a band that's become a bit bored with itself while Starpower doesn't - and has creepy guitars.

Truth.....Lust Lust Lust was the last album I got from them. It was ok. I mean it started off great...but I dunno....just got boring the more I listened to it.

I think that is just the same shit this whole western culture is full of: idealising the young age and living like there is no old age and death. I agree that there is difference (of course: there are twenty years between) but when Starpower has something young and angry, in Reena I think Sy has become mature, I think they have found the inner peace what they started to search in EVOL after that darkness and anger of former albums. And inner peace can also be the source of creativity, every artist who have found it don´t become boring AOR maker.

Well, maybe SY has become tired old men and woman, but that´s totally ok to me as long as they make good music, I mean great melodies and also could achieve something fresh in their albums.

I am still wondering why you keep on complaining about the quality of SY newest records, because you have choise not to buy them or even listen them. Or are you hanging here, because you still believe they will make a new Bad Moon Rising to you if they just want?

Because I'm in a good, optimistic mood, I'm more interested in the bands that got it together more than the bands that lost it.

But the only one I can think of at the moment is:

BLUR--Started off with a generic, disposable album and ended with the unique, enchanting Think Tank.

Oh, and Camper Van Beethoven. They never sucked, but Key Lime Pie is better than their debut.

Oh, and what about James Brown? His very early stuff is cookie-cutter soul; then he broke new ground, ground that is still being worked on today.

No, I'm hanging here because it's free, open whenever I want it, and because I don't have the willpower to leave. I really couldn't care less about SY anymore so if I appear to complain about their newer albums, I'm probably just killing time waiting for someone to post something about football, or movies. You could take the SY out of SYG and it wouldn't make that much difference to me.

I think we all did that a long time ago, no?

I love how this immediately became a "bands that used to rock but now suck" thread instead of what the actual thread title was.

Anyway, its hard to think of bands that were outright shit and then got really good. If you like a groups later work you tend to be able to find something in their earlier work to like even if it isnt as good. Especially in rock music where the songwriting and attitude doesnt tend to change greatly, its more the sense of vision and confidence (and production values) that do.

Anyway, I think Les Savy Fav got better as time went on, as did Arab Strap, but its still pretty hard.

Edit - Oneida are probably the best example i can think of in Rock music

Every change you identified there IS a stylistic change, and each of those stylistic changes is a FACT about SY's music.

I'm not about to track down Kim and Thurston and demand that they make another Daydream Nation... But that doesn't mean I can't point out the changes that they've undergone and say why I didn't like some of them. You bemoan the fact that there's not enough SY in SYG, but dismiss this important debate about them. SY is still my favourite band, which is why I respect them enough to call them out when they make albums like Rather Ripped or songs like Superstar. As a fan, I have no guilt about making that my business.

So I think it´s me time to stop saying here that I still love SY. The wall of hate against SY nowdays seem to be so thick that I have nothing to do with it alone. Just make thousands of "I hate SY"-threads. But if someone else also want to say someday he´s still loving SY, I will also join in that.

I think your main problem is accepting that not everyone is a hardcore Sonic Youth fan the way you are.

I still love sy.

man that girl is a fox but her band fucking sucks....

No, they became tools, they started out underground and crust enough, but I can equally agree with all that negativity you are spewing there, they most definitely such today and are also a boring cliche. But trying to do that same thing for 15 or 20 years can do that to ya ;)

then again, the SubhumanS have done just fine staying relevant..

My main problem is accepting that some of those who are not have some kind of obsession to say now and then here how SY has turned to shit. But of course it´s not just SY forum problem, I can very easily imagine what kind of atmosphere are in Metallica´s fan forum...

Yes, I know there are some of us and it´s great! :)

agreeddddd 100%

agreeddddd 100%

It's probably true of all single band devoted fan sites. You're more likely to find outright SY devotion on say a Nirvana site, and vice versa. Although I also think it's something inherent within SY themselves: a certain flippancy about everything that maybe wouldn't be so prevalent on some other bands' sites. Saying all that, I do think you're taking the views of a handful of posters here as representing the board as a whole. There are plenty of members here just as devoted to SY as you, they just rarely bother to engage with what's going on in the Non-Sonics sections, or when they do, take it with a large pinch of salt. Ultimately I think everyone here can empathise with your love of SY, even if for some of us it's only a memory and for others not necessarily as blanket-form.

I think you don´t understand what my point has been in my writings. My point isn´t that somebody who don´t love SY as much as I can´t be here. The point is overall negativism that I think is allover internet. If I put here (last time it was in sonics "What do you think eternal as a final album"-thread) that I think the Eternal is great album, there is always somebody who have to put forward me "noo, it´s horrible". I would understand it, if this was "the Best Avantgarde music of this moment"-site, but this really is a Sonic Youth Gossib. I have felt, I just can´t be innocent, still SY-loving fan here. And I think I´m not alone. And I think it´s sick!

I don't understand why you worry so much if someone doesn't appreciate SY’s latest output, or any of their other records for that matter, as much as you do.

On the internet music forums I visit it’s not often that I’ve witnessed genuine cases of one individual persuading another with what it is that they’re missing about a particular record or a band without retorting to off-handed comments or passive-aggressive rhetoric directly connected to an often questionable sense of superiority which maintains its pace purely because it’s hidden by the smoke and mirrors provided by not having an exchange face to face. Positive outcomes in that sort of scenario do occur, of course, and it’s great when you establish that sort of communication with someone you have never met in the flesh, but this sort of forum tends for the most part to attract too many dickheads who imagine they are winning a sort of self-esteem war by putting down someone’s music taste over theirs. And said dickheads often win that sort of futile war when they are constantly fed new victims who foolishly and naively believe that one’s own taste in music is something you constantly have to defend at all cost.

I used to think this was only true of some bored teen with no money to go out and no girlfriend, but after witnessing for the umpteenth time grown men falling out of friendship on more exposing websites like Facebook because of a divergence of opinion on the value of fucking Suede or Black Sabbath, this sort of behaviour is symptomatic of a breed of music fan differing vastly in age and with substantial similarities in their own cretinism.

Well, as a matter of fact, I really don´t care what most of the people think about SY latest input. And I know there always be idiots who just like to float with negativism in internet. My point is that why persons like demonrail who I think is quite regular here have also to join in that negativism? I think everybody knows here he don´t like the SY latest input. There has been mentions about many bands here I don´t like, but I haven´t mentioined anything because I know many respect them here.