"Assisted Suicide" Doctor Jack Kevorkian dead at 83
 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_870791.html

RIP I'm not going to make the guy out to be a hero or a monster. I think calling him a criminal is ridiculous. The mainstream media made him out to be the "back alley abortion" of assisted suicide for terminal patients.

Odd, since I just mentioned him on here last week (the only time I've ever mentioned him, or really thought about it). RIP.

He made some really cool art and some pretty great records actually, check those out sometimes..

My favorite line regarding this, from dlisted.com

"Dr. Jack Kevorkian died without assistance at Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan early this morning at the age of 83."

Really, even after he crossed the line from the despicable act of assisted suicide to the mercurial mercy killing more familiar to veterinarians?

+ God Bless the Soul + (hey, even garbage deserves grace)

on belgium tv i heard euthanesy for psychiatric patients, a possibility
have some serious questions about that
isn't it that suicidal paitients are psychiatric patient
again powerfreakedup people that are gonna make decisions for those who can't or give help

better start with lowering the suicide rate
8 a day
n°2 in europe
but belgium has no money for that
they have money for the royal family and politicians driving 4X4 and drinking champagne
they don't want to see the problem

what does that have to do with anything? This dude was a scoundral, I don't mean to shit on his obituary, but seriously, he is more a nazi then a doctor, consistently fascinated and involved with things not only beyond poor taste, but beyond any kind of decency. I pray even for the souls of the worst, in fact especially because of their badness, that perhaps some grace be found, be it from my not real God(s) or the harmonic convergence of the vibrating strings of several interpolating dimensions..

When people are suicidal, they are not rational. It is the purpose of rational human beings to do their best to dissuade and inspire these poor, saddened people away from such self-destructive thoughts. At the least, if folks are not so concerned with the saving of life and mind, they should then mind their business. What this guy promoted was horrifying at every level, and I have no shame saying so. Not only did he promote something despicable, but he crossed that very line and became a mercy killer, which is something different entirely.

Supposed sacredness? Get over yourself, there is nothing sacred about an ICU, but there is something sacred about the depth of the human heart which can endure such suffering empathetically and directly without collapsing under its own weight. Life hurts, so what?

What makes us moral, human beings is that our love for each other allows us to stand by our friends, family, lovers and neighbors when they are suffering, even to the point of death. We don't try to convince people to live because it is righteous to suffer, no, we are not necessarily trying to convince them of anything. The reason you don't let a person kill themselves is because it is selfish and lazy on our part to be complicit in the act. These people are suicidal because they are in pain, they are afraid, and may be lonely. They need physical, emotional, psychological, and spiritual support from other human beings. They need to be touched, to be held, to be appreciated, to simply have a human being at the foot of the deathbed to co-exist with, because human beings are social creatures. What you are proposing is heartless, selfish and lazy. We don't help each other out with suffering because of morality or of a fear of God, we help each other out because of LOVE.

We love those who suffer, and we feel their pain, and we share it with them, so that they are never alone through it. We can't understand, be it from a scientific or religious perspective why people die or suffer, but what we can do as human beings is stop, pause and breathe a moment, and then do what the fuck we have to do to stick it out like adults and take care of each other regardless of the mutual pain. Even wolves don't kill their own out of injury, but the pack stays together till the bitter end..

ahem

speaks for itself

I hope I have a Dr Kevorkian when I'm old.

Same here...

These people were terminally ill, becoming vegetables, and the medical company wanted to keep taking their family for thousands -- tens of, hundreds of, etc -- meanwhile they were completely miserable and were already basically dead. So, they wanted to die for real. ...Everyone should have the right to do what they want with their lives. That's why it's THEIR life. The option should be available. A country that supports the "death pentalty" but doesn't support assisted suicide, means if you want to die in a way other than your own hands, you're going to have to commit awful crimes in order to get your own death! I mean, that's simplfying it a bit, but it does seem a bit... ironic?

If I were ever in the kind of terminal agony that these people were in, I think I'd hope like hell I could find someone who'd assist me in ending my life. I think it's pretty fucked up the way this guy was vilified by a certain segment of the population. If someone chooses to end their own life, no matter what the reason, it's their choice and I think it should be respected. How the fuck can was as a society dictate that people don't even have the right to die when they want to? It such a fundamental right.

you goth kids do realize that being suicidal, even if for supposedly good reasons, is a serious mental illness right?

I guess theres a sort of dignity in allowing yourself to last until the natural way gets its way, but you know what, its not like anything but death itself adds up in the end. I'm thinking, I have an immigrant (most likely due to economic circumstances) care worker wiping my ass and rolling me to and from my bed because I cant do it myself nevermind go out, going through the physical motions of being despite my brain having called it quits years ago, no one comes to visit me because I'm not going to have a family and clan to support me and who likes visiting seniors anyway? I live day to day as I always have in a superficial hell playing cards or whatever the fuck waiting for medication, that is IF I AM LUCKY ENOUGH to have a government by then that supports such a thing (which I doubt), reflecting on most likely the worst of shit because my perspective is taken over by the fact that I'm in a shit situation in the present.
Please.

Or I could presuppose that when I'm older, I'll have hit the WISE button and take everything really awesomely and find some house of people to take care of me and everythings fucking awesome and I can watch kids grow up and wonder at how things have changed in awe at the awesomeness of life itself. I'll magically not be affected by the fact that my ankles shattered into dust in a single step rendering me sedentary despite a lifetime of independance. My longingness of natural human connection will be limited to doctors visits and the pestering of local merchants.

I guess atsonicpark, myself and a bunch of others are just a bad batch of mental patients then.

At least you were never committed and then dumped in back alleys once the government funding ran out. That's why the vancouver downtown east side has such a nasty reputation. A whole hospital. It literally happened, and no one cares.

I went to med school with this guy. He was awfully good at pinball. We used to go out shopping for Tripp pants together.

r.i.p.

Youre so cute.

I suppose everyone is mentally ill then. I highly doubt there is one person walking the earth over the age of 18 that hasn't at least once considered it as a possible option. Suicide is an option. Of course, it may not always be the best option, but if I was sick in bed hacking lungs out in severe pain and knowing I would be dead soon...yeah....I think suicide would be a good option...in the same way, I think anyone that truly gave a fuck about me would also consider it a good option. I wouldn't want to watch my friends/loved ones suffer on that serious of a level.

+ god has absolutely nothing to do with any of this. if anything, god is the problem when it comes to such issues.

Haha. Priceless.

...Yeah, seriously though, it's nice to know I have a serious mental illness. Maybe I'm just not as easily fooled, distracted, and consumed by a meaningless, pointless existence. So many people derive simple joys from their new cellphones or their facebook accounts or new bongs or new tattoos or whatever, and all that stuff's neat for them and whatever, and I am certainly happy for them -- perhaps my biggest flaw, and weirdest trait, is that as much as I hate myself, I always go out of my way to make sure everyone else is really happy, and I'd do anything to make them happy. It makes me feel good to make others happy. But anyway, I like a lot of those people, and all those things I mentioned allows them to continue leading wonderful lives. I'm just saying: I'm unhappy with life. Life HURTS ME. Personally, no matter how much I consume, no matter how much I change, no matter how much I think about it, it doesn't change the feeling that I'm really really fucking depressed all the time. I like when people don't like me, sometimes. I love to be abused. I am attracted to people who will hurt me, in every way. That turns me on, in fact. Anyway, I know so many smart, cool people, who are suicidal -- in fact, you rarely see a "dumb" (for a lack of a better term, and again, simplifying here) person kill themselves, but there's all sorts of brilliant, intelligent people out there who either have or will be suicidal or commit suicide. I think it's because the smarter you are, the less you are distracted by simple bullshit. The less you are excited by little things that most people go apeshit over. You know how they say ignorance is bliss? I think the opposite is true: intelligence can be hell. I hate myself, completely, 100%. I mean, I really just hate the way I look, the way I talk, the way I LIVE, and I've tried everything to change everything, but can't, no matter where I go or what I do, etc. I mean, I'm still going to keep living, I guess, I don't really have any interest in much music or movies or anything anymore, probably never again, and even as "creative" as I am, I don't have any immediate plans for making any kind of art (though I have been working on an avant garde shmup!). But I've been posting here 10 years, and I love this place, it's probably the only msg board or social forum I haven't quit, because I really dig tons of the people here. But man, I just feel weighed down so much, held back so much, by hatred for myself. They started writing good things about me in my local newspaper, my film showed Friday at an art museum, Greg Ginn likes my music, I have plenty of cash saved up, I've got a brand new car I bought by myself with my own money, I can quit my job and have enough money to live off of for 2 years while still paying bills, and the girl I spend time with who is my girlfriend sorta, is fun and pretty and honestly gives the best sex EVER. And at the moment, I got a good supply of other things that I enjoy. And yet I'm not happy in the least (well, the Ginn thing was really cool -- thanks again, Derek).

Actually, the best thing that's happened ALL YEAR was a drawing Derek sent me of Bart Simpson wearing a SCISSORSHOCK shirt. Derek is just one of those great people, there's very few of them out there. He's never tried to use me or take advantage/manipulate me. He's real, and cool as fuck. Dig that dude so much.

But yeah, even though I won't live to be that old, when I'm a vegetable, I'm going to take my perhaps-vast fortune and offer it to whoever to kill me. I'll write a living will for it. Those people were technically alive, but they were dead on the inside. Should Terry Schiavo have been kept on life support forever? Should people who are terminally ill and only have shitting themselves and death to look forward to and no other pleasures EVER for the REST OF THEIR EXISTENCE, only PAIN... should those people be kept alive by machines and medicine and money? Kevorkian didn't accept money, did he? Only donations. He really believed in his cause. He's a-okay. Also, my life is my life. I always love the "YOU'RE SELFISH IF YOU KILL YOURSELF!" Well, isn't it more selfish of someone else if they try to control my life, the only life I'll ever have, and for them to try to get me to go through a life of hell?

I'm just finding life more and more painful. Suicide isn't sexy or cool, really. I'm not saying that at all. I'm not being morbid or gothy here, just honest about myself. It's easy to see how abuse and other things have fucked me up and gotten me to this point, the person I am today. But don't worry, I'm not going to kill myself.

...because I still need to hit 30,000 posts!

blah blah blah

you fellas sure do like talking to yourselves

I remember when the non-sonics board used to be a fun place to talk about movies and games all day.

now it's debate after debate after debate after debate... and no one's opinion is ever changed for the better.

you probably should just kill yourselves already and stop posting on a forum about it

wussies

you must spread your brain matter all over the pristine white wall beind you whilst screaming into the abyss before giving it to kinnikpasswordforgetter again

this thread is scary. y'all accuse me of romanticism, and yet several of y'all are romaniticising suicide to the point where i am seriously concerned, all facetiousness and bullypulpit sarcasm aside.

Yes, being suicidal is a DSM IV recognized MENTAL ILLNESS, which requires SERIOUS and CONSTANT professional help. No, it is not normal. Yes, many people feel suicidal from time to time, and they are suffering from a major depressive episode. The very proof that these suicidal thoughts are stemming from a mental illness is the fact that inevitably their psychology and neurochemistry mellows out with time and healing and they get over it. For those who get no help from anyone, they are dead, and that is unfortunate, because had the gotten help perhaps they might have healed and survived like the rest of us who have been suicidal at different times in our lives.

this thread scares me for so many reasons, I feel so bad for how much pain, fear and loathing some of you SYG folkz harbor in your hearts, let it go folks, its all love.

I am constantly amazed at the amount of weight and burden the human heart can possess without collapsing under its own weight. this alone is why suicide is NOT an option, it is a tragedy

yr acting as if there is no difference between someone who is sad/considering suicide and someone in great physical pain/ALREADY ON THEIR DEATH BED and consider it....two VERY different things, my friend.

Perhaps everyone has a flippant attitude to life, or maybe this is the internet and people like to wind everyone up. I know its better to slowly decay and leave some kind of record of your existence than to go bluntly and unceremoniously. Who are you feeling bad for?

The DSM IV isnt to be dismissed so flippantly, it wasnt "made up", its a product of real research and real investigation.

It's just as "fun" as it ever was, there's always been serious discussions amongst the VIDEO GAMEZ and MOVIEZ (the meaning of life, clearly; I'm so bored with all that shit, but I'm always down to talk about interesting movies and games, those threads still exist and I still post to them, it just so happens that there are topics for serious things as well). Opinions are never going to change for the "Better", or "Worse", as there is no such thing as a "good" or "bad" opinion. No offense, but you should probably stop reading serious posts/threads if you can't handle how "unfun" they are. I don't care either way, but I'm a lot more complex of a human being than just "oh that guy who has seen a bunch of movies and shit."

Fact is, I dunno about some people here, but I personally have to pay bills, I have to work for a living, I have to deal with things that from my past that have permanently fucked me up, physically and mentally. I am so depressed I don't plan on ever making films again and probably will not record many more albums. It's crippling anxiety and depression, yet I HAVE TO work, no one has ever given me anything, I have had to work since I was 14 years old (when I watched my grandma die in front of me, she weighed about 70lbs at the time because she'd dealt with cancer). No one has given me ANYTHING -- clothes, cars, NOTHING, I've had to steal or mow lawns or WHATEVER. My dad disowned me, my stepdad physically abused me, I was sexually assaulted when I was younger and I have nightmares about it nearly every night. My mom has cancer and my grandpa has a year to live, not to mention I'm sick as well (sorry, not sick, DYING. But i won't get into that, lest someone think I want any sympathy; I'm only saying this to illustrate a point). I take care of both of them, after working 3rd shift I will drive them to the hospital and for tests and usually not sleep and will be up for a few days straight. I work my ass off at work, but no one appreciates it, really. But it'ss omething I have to do since I'm the only one working, paying for my mom because she's too sick to work but she can't get disability for whatever ridiculous reason, meanwhile some meth whore or chick with 5 kids will get all the government assistance in the world, and 25% of my paycheck will go towards it. The funniest thing is, despite almsot none of my friends having a job and getting to sit around and get checks from the government, they still ask me for money and shit all the time. It's my own stupidity, but I'm always giving everyone I know, everything I own. It kinda makes me happy to give. That's one of the few things I enjoy. Though the minute I stop, all those "Friends" begin shit talking cuz I'm not willing to go "GET HIGHHHHH". Oh, and everyone's advice for my depression? "JUST GET HIGH." Man, smoking weed is fucking boring.

I'm not complaining, just putting things into perspective. It's easy to sit at a computer and go "wAHH STOP WHINING" -- I'm not whining, we're having a discussion because apparently depression and suicidal thoughts are "wrong" to some people. Fact is, I'm not going to kill myself, but thinking about death and its inevitably can be comforting. It's probably not something many on this board would understand -- but many on this board do understand completely, as well.

No one is forcing you to read this thread, which is serious. Your favorite threads are about hackerz and the internet and old video games and ICP and so on and so forth. That's cool, that stuff can be entertaining, and it's your right to use this board for that purpose, you can do whatever you want online. But I for one usually don't shit on your threads, and I have defended you many times, seeing your point of view on why you find ICP entertaining or whatever. I'm not asking you to change your mind, but to at least see where I'm coming from. Ultimately, no one is going to change >my< mind, as the abuse I have faced and the tragedies I've endured have gotten me to where I am. I have worked extra hard to be successful and to have something to show for life, and I still have a "girlfriend" who makes fun of me for not going to college and for wasting my life at a grocery store. Even people I love and am supposed to trust have problems with me, even though she admitted to me during a 2 hour argument last night she started that she's actually just really jealous of me. I said "you're jealous because your family is rich and buys you 3 cartons of cigarettes a week and buys you brand new cars and pays for everything and you just get to sit on your ass all day and hang out with rich dudes all day and I don't say anything? Meanwhile I have to take care of my family, work my ass off to support myself AND my family, for nearly half my life, and every time I get depressed you tell me I shouldn't be, because your problems are worse than mine?" See, she has a lot of problems in life, too. I hear her complain every day. She's "bored". I wish "boredom" was the worst thing I had to deal with.

So, yeah, everyone has problems, certainly. My problems are no "Better" or "Worse" than anyone else's, and I'm a strong enough person to carry on. Unfortunately, unlike most of the internet, a generation of spoiled assholes who complain when their iphone is out of service for 2 seconds, or their DSL is "only" going 100kb a second or something, I don't have the luxury of being able to sit on my ass all day, I have to deal with problems head-on and you know what? It wears me out. But at the same time, I appreciate things a lot more. And I'm certainly not going to try to shit on someone else for having opinions different than mine.

Reality isn't always a fun place. Ultimately, I've played every video game, watched every movie, and listened to almost every band that I think I'll ever like. None of it makes me happy. It's all distractions. Playing guitar makes me sorta happy, but that's about it. Having wild freaky nasty crazy sex doesn't do anything for me, I'll go months without cumming. Smoking pot is so fucking boring. I like some drugs but yeah. Ultimately I'm looking for something more in life -- something I'll probably never find -- and I'm very happy for people who have joy in their lives. I do like simple little things. I have been growing flowers, and taking photos of them. I think they're beautiful. I love when the weather is nice, sometimes I'll sit on a hill at the local park for hours and just think.

And yeah I LOVE guitar. I've been sitting around playing some "Fahey Lite" stuff on guitar and I feel like I've FINALLY -- after 14 years of playing and 13 years releasing material -- began to become a decent guitarist.

I also LOVE Lumines. Best game ever. I've put 80 hours into that game in the past 2 years.

And I love video mix tapes, like LOST AND FOUND VIDEO NIGHTS. FOUND FOOTAGE FESTIVAL. FORBIDDEN TRANSMISSION. Etc.

I also love LOVE AND ROCKETS!

So yeah, life isn't completely awful or anything. There are all sorts of things I dig. I'm not going to "kill myself already", but I am going to keep posting relevant messages on relevant topics in relative threads on this board, because that's what our discussion was about. Whenever you get super down and depressed in life and have to deal with how shitty and fucked-up life really is, I'm not going to shit on you or your posts, I'll be the first to listen and if I can, give you advice. Keep that in mind. Like I said, I can give and give and be nice to people and treat them how I want to be treated, and the minute I need to vent because of how truely fucked up my life is, I get met with "kill yourself already". Hilarious. But I don't care. A lot of people would, but I don't, because I've accepted that's how most people react.

No biggy. I'm not mad in the least. Take care.

What is this about suicidal and goth shit? Did he assist suicidal people to kill themselves?

I always thought he killed sick people.

There is a BIG difference for being healthy and suicidal and wanting to die because of a terrible body ravaging illness that slowly kills you.

I didnt defend anything its been used to justify, but if youre mucking around deciding that peer reviewed scientific research is the problem then you have no place telling SuchFriends that God is illogical, and youre just pretending you know more than medical professionals.

Yeah, he met tons of people who he TURNED DOWN. He didn't just go on a "killing spree". He made the means available to people who were already, basically, dead -- if not technically, then at least "Dead" to the extent of "Not being able to live properly". People were REALLY excited to finally be able to end their own lives peacefully. The only reason there was ANY criticism is because doctors/hospitals lost money from it. They have the cure for AIDS and cancer and so on and so forth, but they'd lose SO MUCH FUCKING MONEY if they released it. They're still kicking themselves over the polio guy giving away the cure for free!

Kevorkian didn't take money from his patients. Kevorkian helped those that were living in excrutating pain.

Personally speaking, I had major back surgery and a catheter shoved up my dick, I also once fell down 8 stairs, nearly broke my neck and landed on a cement floor with an upright nail that got lodged in my back. I am taking a wild guess that all the most painful things I've dealt with -- the back surgery meant that I couldn't walk for a week without the worst pain I've ever felt happening to me -- are not even 1% of the pain those poor people are going through.

Ultimately, it's really no one's business if someone kills themselves or wants to die, because it's their life. People are so selfish when they try to control other peoples' lives. If you told me "You're going to have to be in the worst pain of your life for the rest of your life -- and not really have a life -- or you could kill yourself peacefully", what would i choose? Would anyone really choose "OH I'M GOING TO BE IN AWFUL PAIN, GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE SOMEONE WIPE MY ASS FOR ME 3 TIMES A DAY, GONNA JUST HANG OUT IN THE HOSPITAL FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS, GONNA NOT BE ABLE TO EAT/SLEEP/FUCK/PISS/SHIT/GET DRESSED WITHOUT ASSISTANCE! SIGN ME UP FOR THAT! NO ALTERNATIVES AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" If so, that's... well... have fun with that, y'all.

also.. almost fired. I've had 15 managers in 7 years and all of them have praised my work, many calling me the best worker in the store. one fuckhead weirdo manager has a problem with me and has called me in the office 3 times in 9 months just to fuck with me and get me in trouble. Now I'm going to have to go bosses above him and create all this drama to get some of those "strikes" taken off my record. Just ridiculous. They sent me home the other day because he said I wasn't being "productive" enough -- keep in mind I have the most time-consuming and difficult department in the store and yet I consistently get done before anyone, without needing any help. Just hilarious. Then again, what do I expect, when the only really down to earth, awesome, honest, hard-workingest manager in the store was fired recently for random bullshit reasons that made no sense, without warning? This store seems to hate people who work. Or, sorry, don't exclusively kiss their asses and worship them... Oh well. It wouldn't be so bad, but I am dealing with a lot of personal problems at the moment too, as well as family stuff.

I'm with your stance on this 100% my friend, I'm going to miss you when you're gone because you are the voice of reason usually on here and genuine when everyone else is in some never ending pissing contest of how ironic or how sardonic they can be. There are alot of smart people on this board, but most of them have really, really shitty attitudes.

You're a smart dude, who's been dealt some shitty blows in life, yet you keep your attitude positive, in a weird, super realistic and bleak way. But at least you havent given up or damn the world and I'm glad you are still around to post and give such an example.

People wanna talk about serious shit, intellectual discussions, well let's do it. Entertainment is simpley that, entertainment (distractions or an escape to keep the mind sane). Not something that encompasses every part of your existence. I mean for fuck sake, thats why I love this board...because theres always been so many viewpoint from all over the world, not just about music and art but on SERIOUS SHIT that affects us ALL.

If you want something silly and light and etc. ALL THE TIME maybe u should go on the disney forums...or ICP forums. Or you should just go out and be a better juggalo, isnt there some gathering happening now you should be getting fucked up at on whip its, meth, and faygo?!

Thank you, DDD, excellent post -- not just because you agree with me, mind you. I am glad someone recognizes that I try to be relaistic and fair and see all sides, I don't have one "side", and I've disagreed with my best friends on here as much as agreeing with my least-best-friends. I'm not perfect, I'm the first person to criticize myself, and I'm very fucking hard on myself... but I try. I try to do the right thing. I wish more people would aspire to at least TRY.

Ultimately, Joe can say whatever he wants, he's proven he doesn't want to talk about anything serious, and that's probably why most people don't take him seriously. The sad thing is, I defend him more than anyone else on here, and see his side of things and don't have anything against him, but he still responded with "kill [yourself] already." It doesn't change how I feel, I have a long history of respecting people and their opinions and what they want out of life and their point of view and how they live even if it doesn't agree with mine, and then still being insulted for it. I know he was just fucking around and "having fun", but we are genuinely trying to have thought provoking interesting convos on this thread. See, that's why I never shoot down people's opinions, even if I completely disagree with them initially: sometimes, if we really listen, we might just learn something. My mind has been changed by other people often. I prefer to listen than to speak, though I speak a lot of course.

Like I said: Oh well. No biggy. Joe's fine. That message was a little much for me but it happens.

Yeah for sure, I try to do the same. I'm not perfect and I've grown alot and matured as an artist due to the conversations and view points here. Im just as hard on myself here and write alot more than "shit indie rock". But that's how I get labelled and Im ok with that.

Hell, I even agree with Nik most of the time and he is right about alot of things, I just wish he'd have a bit more compassion while trying to get his views across. But that's a hard quality to muster up.

So we go on making stabs at eachother, while he thinks my music is the sum of all my parts and I think his nihilism is the sum of all of his parts ;)

respect.

N'ik is an intense man!

We all are

If suicide was a lucrative business then the corruption of the scientific research would have been going on since as long as you suggest. Again, YOU are suggesting the conspiracy theory, its down to YOU to provide the evidence rather than saying "The drug companies... and the corporations... and the MAN!" I know about the history of prefrontal surgery, how there were awfully clumsy operations carried out. Show me whats going on now to justify your arguement

I can testify that Dr. Eugene Felikson is far from a shallow poster and capable of discussing serious things with people he feels comfortable with.

the vast majority of the religious community will never be able to accept this fact that you, my friend, have worded very well.