Is the internet not real?
 

I've seen this being said many times - it's only the internet, it's not serious, it's not real. It got me curious.

Is it not serious, is it not real? Is it seen as a parallel world in which normal morals and laws do not apply?

Do you develop a special internet persona that is not the real you?
Are more willing to tolerate things or behave in ways you wouldn't in your normal life?
Is it hard for you to see the others you are interacting with as other human beings? What changes that detached approach, what humanizes an internet user?
Do you find yourself doing things that you think you wouldn't do offline?
Have you developed any new interests/obsessions that you wouldn't have otherwise?

Finally, do you really believe it shouldn't be seen as serious?

Isn't the internet a REAL SERIOUS part of everybody's life now?

the internet should be taken seriously as a way to communicate or share things. it's a great tool to spread your ideas or work around the world and get to know visions and things you would never have seen otherwise. (i am one mouseclick away from the underground comics of the indonesion art scene, for example)

the content of the internet should be taken a bit more seriously though. the impact of false information on the people it reaches shouldn't be underestimated. also, the idea of 'everything on the internet is public property' should start to disappear, if you check sites like www.youthoughtwewouldntnotice.com you see how a lot of plagiarism these days results from artwork posted online, and the general idea still seems to be that if you post something online, you have no right to decide what happens with it.

as for me, i take more time to think and rephrase about what i say online,more than in real life. my online personality is not too different from who i really am anyway. i do prefer actual contact over online contact, and i don't like communicating with total strangers-i need a face, at least.

My internet persona gets laid a lot more.

I spend most of my time on the internet and some of my best friends are people I've met on the internet... so I hope it's serious !

I think saying 'it's only the internet, it's not real life' is a bit like the 'ironic' racism defence. In fact, it's exactly the same thing. The internet is a multi-faceted thing, and I think you're right to say that it's a huge part of our lives now; I think there's a large element of what is socially proper - just as I'd almost never call my parents cunt-towers, I'd probably not discuss my preferences for certain sorts of porn here. Elsewhere on the internet, where I consider it more appropriate, I'd be more forthcoming about it.

The problem with any social engagement (and SYG is a social engagement, given that a lot of us spend as much time here as with our fleshworld friends) is that these 'rules' (or discretely agreed-upon protocols) are not the same for everyone. 'Freedom of speech' (if such a thing exists, I personally think it's a bit of a US-based non-sequitur) isn't freedom to say whatever you want. I think most of us have a thick enough skin to ignore certain things (such as a certain person's transparent and quite funny baiting) but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be held to account for things they say.

Context is really important - if you take someone like amerikangod (if he'll excuse me mentioning him by name), he's pretty consistent in his preposterous posts - and I might be wrong to say this, but his posts are nearly always steeped in humour to the point where you don't really take them at face value. The problem is the more insidious subterfuges underlying a lot of other people's posts. There's this sense that someone saying 'I'm not racist, my best friend's [x], but [ethnic group y] just don't work for a living' - that's the sort of insidious undertones I'm talking about, where the person saying whatever is less aware of the potential ramifications of what they're saying. With the internet I think this problem is actually more pronounced - because the currency is words and pictures, rather than ephemeral speech-utterances and physical presences (intonation etc), we can constantly refer back to what someone has said. People (I'd include myself) are incredibly incautious about what they say on the internet as in 'real' life, but in real life it's a lot easier to let the odd iffy statement slide. In terms of the ethics or whatever of something said on the internet, you could easily argue that the internet makes you far more aware of the ramifications of what you're saying.

I'll stop there, I'm going to collect my thoughts and report back later, but yeah, essentially I think that the internet ought to make people more cautious about how they're presenting their self, but oddly the contrary seems to be the case.

I guess anyone would prefer actual content over online contact, but that never changed the way I view people. The other day I was talking about how it's interesting when people post photos - they immediately seem more real.

I agree that this idea of the internet being a lawless place has to end - I just saw a local documentary the other day about kids committing suicide because of other people making fake profiles, hacking into their accounts, doing online bullying.

The Brazilian police started tracking the IP of people who posted white power bullshit (in many countries considered acceptable) and ended up finding leaders and a bunch of murderers that have committed crimes that were unsolved until then.

50% people I work with I've never seen in person.
A lot of people I meet online become my real friends.

To me it is Real I do not do or say things that I would noy in real life. I try to show who I am with no lies. I try to stick with my morals. I don't want to be ashamed of something I wrote if Ryan reads it that is stupid. I try to be an open book. This is like my music community since I dont socialize much for lack of time. it is kind of also like a course in computer shit for me, because I was from the generation that just almost missed out onall this technological shit and I am still tryin to keep up with yall young folk who never had to use a typewriter and white out in college.


Great thread knoxy:)

I wholeheartedly agree with you knox.

But sometimes, in some places, with some people, the internet is just a big joke:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scyGo7tkC4I

That's kind of like what I think. Just like in real life, there are contexts and different situations: you cannot talk about your foot fetish at work, you might wanna talk about it to your friends, but you'll talk about it if you join a foot fetish club night.

Just like real life some people, ideas, opinions, and data must be taken seriously and some discarded. I enjoy the fact that I can meet and talk with people all around the world as well as read newspapers and see artwork from around the world. Just like real life it takes time to know who to trust or not and all friendships developed on the internet are suspect.
Still though I've been very lucky and made a lot of friends who I first chatted with on the internet and them met in person later and found them to be trustworthy and fun to be with.

It has become such a part of our lives as well as our children that it must be taken serious.

I wish...

My internet persona is like serial experiments lain.

The ppl on this board know alot more about me than some of my own family members. To me it's sort of a matter of trust, whether the responses to me are positive or negative. This is something I wouldn't risk with those I see everyday in real life. So on the SYG board at least, the internet is real to me.

TOO REaL FOR YA!

of course it's real....I'm here now am I?.....and I am real......right? so...therefor...INTERNET IS REAL!


but seriously...I don't really hide much from here. I mean....not that there really is much to hide...I am a boring person who likes to talk about nothing.

The internet isn't fake, it's just entirely different from meeting in person.

You're anonymous
You're not exactly faceless since you likely have a profile picture/avatar, but that's quite different from a real face
You can't get interrupted
You have time to think out what you're going to say
You can edit what you say before you say it
You don't get to hear the words leave your mouth
you have considerably less power of inflection

The same rules apply to everyone you talk to.

So it makes for people to act not like themselves. What people forget is that they are building an online personality on message boards or chat rooms and if they use the same name, people remember them. . . so things that they say ultimately do have meaning. The more your online self matures, the more it acts like your offline self.

You realize you can't just blurt out whatever comes to your mind, you realize that maybe you shouldn't share everything, and you realize that while people may not call you out in real life, they definitely will online, so you have to be a bit more restrained even.

Of course private conversations are of a completely different nature than message board conversations, and I find myself still completely far too open when I talk to the right person in private.

internet is as REAL as any other form of communication.

anyone who says otherwise is likely either ashamed of stuff they do or have done while on the "internet" or are looking for an easy cop-out.

when an "inappropriate" facebook post gets one fired, they can see how REAL it is.

I've always heard that "internet is serious business."

My mom is my desktop wallpaper.

I hope I die of a malware attack to my brain.

I used to think the internet was not real.. after all, I came online in 1996 in the AOL days when that was ALL there was on the internet. The internet was not necessarily a real place at all, and in real life we all mocked and ridiculed life on the internet. Even say 5 years ago you could catch a lot of static about the internet..

but lately..

I have been thinking just the opposite!

Shit every fucking thing is on the net.

I get my world news, from the net.
I get my music, from the net.
I get find all the upcoming gigs/shows, on the net.
I build and reason with folks globally, on the net.
I read books and articles and research, on the net.
I found ALL my last and current employment, on the net.

the only thing I don't do on the net is dating, and many many other folks meet all their dates, on the net.

The Internet is realer than real these days, its actually kind of frightening. I trip out how much shit is on the internet, back in the day we would have laughed at things like finding music news or finding jobs on the internet, all there was was chat rooms..

I agree.

I don't see why some people feel the need to apply different morals (or even different laws) to the internet. The morals/laws are there, they should apply to every sphere of human interaction.

"anonymity" makes people think their shit has no consequences.

of course the internet is real-- a lot of money gets exchanged on it every day.

but anonymous message boards are not the same as business communications and they are no substitute for bodily friends. the internet is a horrible drinking companion, for example. alcohol causes enough drama in face to face communications, alcohol + the internet, guess what?

anyway, anonimity is not a black and white issue. anonimity is a choice-- not everyone wants to live their lives under the scrutiny of strangers, some of which are complete nutcases.

the post you did about people getting fired for a facebook post-- exactly. there are parts of our lives that we'll share with some people and not others. having all your information out there as a sort of "permanent record" leaves you vulnerable to snooping, crazies, bigots, teabaggers who wanna kill the president but can't and would rather shoot you, etc.

i like to keep my anonimity here for a few reasons: i have seen enough lunatics go by to know i don't want them showing up at my door. i have had internet "friends" who suddenly are some day in a bad mood and turn on you for no particular reason. face-to-face friends have conflicts too, but there is usually a greater degree of diplomacy involved when the other person is staring at your mug.

communication on the internet is a lot more fragile than face to face, we lack a good sense of inflection and body language, and things get misinterpreted and taken out of context all the time. flame wars happen on the internet but you don't see people screaming at each other in the street like some jerry springer show. to expect that in the middle of an anonymous crowd everybody is going to be nice and civilized is naive-- so anonymity in that crowd can be a form of self-defense. nobody wants to be meat for the vultures.

while i don't mind sharing my private information with people i get to trust as sane and likeable, i don't like to put it in the hands of others who may hide behind that anonimity to do pester me, attempt harm, go apeshit, stalk me, steal my money, etc. i've seen enough blatherskites and khchrises and other people lose their shit here and in other places to know you can't fully trust internet entities.

even on identifiable places like facebook, ridiculous useless drama can ensue because of the distance that the internet creates: during the world cup, my wife posted some innocent comments rooting for a particular team and some "friend-of-a-friend" launched into a tirade against her because she was rooting for the opposition. that type of shit doesn't happen when people sit around a tv together. i've watched world games in bars where half of the crowd goes for one team and the other half goes for the other and everyone behaves civilized. same last year's superbowl, went to a party where it was mostly saints supporters but others were for the colts and some were talking about their dogs. no screaming.

i think this has to do with the fact that on the internet even people with names and addresses are free from the consequences of their own actions: you push somebody in real life and you get pushed back, but on the internet you can scream and nothing happens. so EVERYONE is more rude on the internet. to paraphrase kissinger in his observation of university politics, "the politics are so vicious because the stakes are so low".

beyond that, the internet is open to everybody, it's not by invitation only. just like i wouldn't want strangers to walk into my house uninvited, i wouldn't want some random nutcase to barge into my private life.

some people enjoy living their lives in full display to others, while some enjoy a measure of privacy. it's a choice. maybe one day we'll all live in a police state where everybody's moves get tracked online and everyone has access to your "permanent record" and be able to dig out all your fuckups, but i will resist that for as long as i can.

take for example your weed smoking-- you're fine with it, boardies are fine with it, but if you were unemployed and looking for a job, would you want every employer to dig out this fact and judge you unfairly because of it? would you want a cop to start following you around so he can catch you because he found out on the internet that you like to smoke weed? not me, no fucking way. but to each their own.

i do have a facebook profile i use only to communicate with friends, i use skype to talk to my parents, i am part of a number of other message boards where i act more "professional", and there are places where i like to horse around, like a carnaval where people wear masks and get drunk and dance half naked. there's a place and time for everything and the internet is big enough for it all.

But that is entirely the thing. The internet is no longer some facade of pseudoreality, people do their real shit out there now. As I said, jobs, music, family, friends, churches, schools.

I find volunteer work, I network for jobs in Ethiopia, I keep up with Rastafari i-dren across the globe, let alone talking to folks like the SYG from a variety of locations..

I talk to real people far more than the anonymous ones. I think that is what trips me out most of all, sure in the mid-90s that was the allure, the internet was anonymous, but these days there is hardly anything anonymous about it.

ntrnet is not real. its a parallel universe with no moral code.

show us yr tits, knox

You tryin to stir her up more? She's got a full arsonal ready to go.

The internet is not big enough for my tits.

cue my excitement

see? that is HILARIOUS, but only if stated by YOU.

It is all context. If !@#$$% were to throw out "The internet is not big enough for knox's tits" it would sound horrible.

That's the power of context, you should try it.

i am assuming all yr words now are foreplay leading up to the best PM i've ever received.

Well, I am for knox. I can be almost as raunchy as y'all, but pics of dripping twats and such are offensive. Because it was agreed that on this new board we would stay away from extreme shit. She is only calling you on this.

well, i give it all.
that's something you should also say in job interviews.

who posted pictures of dripping twats?

this board hasn't seen a dripping twat in ages (fortunately. now of course because of this someone will end up posting one. it's how this place works)

the biggest sausagefest thread as of late was the amerikangod cock thread, in which you said you happily participated (i didn't. i didn't protest either, i just went my own way)

funny how people get sucked into mass hysteria

do you know what knox finds "extreme"?

this:

http://www.wallpaperpimper.com/wallp...1-1024x768.jpg

click with confidence-- it won't hurt your eyes, i promise you. she looks like a greek or roman goddess and there is no sight of genitalia and/or tastelessness. but anything is a good excuse for crying wolf.



no, that's not it.

Reality isn't real.

The internet is.

1) Do you develop a special internet persona that is not the real you?
What is the real anyone?

2) Are more willing to tolerate things or behave in ways you wouldn't in your normal life?
It depends. It can be difficult to hear tone online...difficult to tell the difference between someone making a heartfelt statement, or just joshin' around.

3) Is it hard for you to see the others you are interacting with as other human beings? What changes that detached approach, what humanizes an internet user?
Some are robots to me, yes. Just letters spreading across a screen. There are others I legitimately care about. Some clearly get online/join forums just to fuck around. I can relate, on some level. Others get online looking for more "serious" social interaction. I relate to this too...


4) Do you find yourself doing things that you think you wouldn't do offline?
Have you developed any new interests/obsessions that you wouldn't have otherwise?
I've done very little (if anything) online that I wouldn't do offline. If I'm pissed, it comes out online. If I'm drunk, it comes out online. If I'm sad, lonely, anything else...it tends to come out online.

Finally, do you really believe it shouldn't be seen as serious?
I don't believe anything should nec. be seen as anything...

Isn't the internet a REAL SERIOUS part of everybody's life now?
For most, no doubt. Why go out every night when ya can just log on? I still enjoy both worlds.

for artsy--

see, some months ago knox protested about naked women and big asses, and asked to keep them confined to some threads, a bunch of us said ok, fine. there was some conversation at the time, a bit bizarre, but eh, it was some sort of dialogue.

when i posted that photo linked above i was talking about female goddess figures before the bronze age, when the female body was revered for its fertility and not for it's "virginity". my mind free associated of course, like minds tend to do, and i posted the picture of a woman that for me would be a much better religious figure (in the old context i mention-- paleolithic, pre-bronze age). i have spoken before, here and elsewhere, of a "cult of bellucci" and the "church of zeta", and there is even some academic discourse (camille paglia, who was fashionable in the 90s but no more) that claims that celebrities offer the same role as the deities of antiquity for our modern minds. part of this was in the back of my head and i didn't expound on it cuz i didn't want to write a paper-- it's a message board. but i did point at it and it wasn't gratuitous. the photo had a context.

then of course i posted the picture, finding nothing wrong with it.

of course, none of this mattered or was taken into account, because it was a naked woman oh my god let's paint some clothes on that sistine chapel and wrap david in a towel.

knox was drunk when she saw the photo & started ranting some utter nonsense directed at me, and i whas like "WTF"?

she took offense or something, and sent me a PM that i discovered later and which she asked me not to repost in which she claimed that i had "disappointed" her and i was a hypocrite and all manner of demented nonsense-- self-righteouness ran amok. the only possible answer to a PM like that would be to grovel like a miserable dog. so i told her to fuck off.

if the picture bothered her (go figure why it would, but if it bothered her) all she had to do was to ask me to take it down without going into hystrionics and i would have no problem doing that. but because the way in which she tore at me i told her basically to fuck off, which is something that i'd do to anybody regardless of gender, age, nationality, etc.

then she conflates my irritation with her tone (drunk, demented) with bullshit fable about "disrespecting women" and suddenly i am the harbinger of sexism on this planet, and guilty that sonic gail gets catcalled at work and that there are no girls in bands and that 9000 penises are raping children (ok this is my own addition). ridiculous and hilarious. but again, mass hysteria will always win the day on the internet or the tv news.

knox's tactic is to take any criticism of her and her drunken post and rather than acknowledge her own role in this bullshit she says "it's sexism and disrespect of women". well, fuck, i don't think it's that-- i think that she expects that because she's a woman people are going to do her bidding no matter how she treats them. i guess you can get away with being a rude drunk if you're a woman, or else everybody else is "sexist" and "disrespectful". that's some very convenient bullshit and a horrible logical fallacy.

if it was a guy i would have told him to eat a bag of dicks. maybe i'm being sexist for not having told her the same thing. ah, yes, "disrespectful".

i call bullshit, and i don't care if nobody else wants to see it, i still call bullshit, because that's what it is.

i'm not saying there is no sexism here or in the world, by the way. i'm saying that it's pretty convenient that a person can act like an asshole and then take cover under the mantle of sexism and get away with it.

Is this thread real or just retarded?

Stop making up things I didn't say, please. I never said anything about the extreme, or what I find extreme etc. I don't like having my words twisted, or this weird stereotype you seem to be trying to get me into, symbol.

You're not willing to care about what women from this board are saying - fair enough, just admit it: I don't care. Now you're the one who seems to be trying to come across as if I'm victimizing you in someway.

Everything that had to be said is there (another thread), in which I am saying things and other women are saying what they feel as well. Pointless to be dragging this everywhere just be honest and say you're not listening.

I did act like an asshole and I can be a proper cunt - but the whole argument wasn't about ME and YOU, so stop making it that way.

If the whole debate ended up in another debate about sexism and women on this board - it's because people are willing to discuss it again, not because people are accusing you to be the evil of the world.

Paglia is considered an anti-feminist and someone who glorifies male dominance. One example of that is how she defended women are partially to blame for being raped in one occasion. So I didn't read much. She also says people aren't born gay and defends therapists who say they can convert gay into straight, so there you go.

Although, she is right if she says celebrities have replaced what Gods used to represent, but it isn't her idea.

I went after amerikan's cock thread with gusto. I got caught up in the spirit of the thread. If he was offended I would've apologized,really.
(check yr pm's re: dripping twat).ha