never denied ifluence of illmatic, IN 1999 maybe! Not now. No up and coming rapper gives a flying fuck about NAS or Biggie or TuPac. that shit is their grandma's hip hop. have you guys forgotten what it is like to be 19 and making new shit? KILL YR IDOLS> fuck 2pac and biggie and M&M. fuck them HARD. the young cats are making new shit drawing on TODAY not twenty year old "classic dad rap"

I don;t know who this Bon Iver you refer to is.

Van Gogh was definitely NOT a genius. he was a decent idiosyncratic painter who shot every chance he had in the foot because of mental ilness, causing him to die impoverished.


BTW, before I started frequenting this thread I had not been up to date on modern hip hip in years and years. I thank all of you or turning me onto much of the shit I listed above.

BTW, NAS Illmatic was actually a DERIVATIVE album, with all his good ideas stolen from and by Prince Paul. whatyougottasayaboutthat??????? boring fucking album. always thought it was boring. Now, BLack Star? shit son, I spin that all day!!!!!

I was just listing what I listen to. not referring to Kanye.

Are you being sarcastic like what's his tits up there? If not, I apologize, and you're right. Even before I liked Kanye I believed that to be true. And for a while I was just like Rob. I just thought he was a pussy and an opportunist, but by the time his third consecutive album received unanimous praise from everyone who's opinion mattered, I had to admit that whatever he was doing, he was basically forging modern pop culture.

Wow. Chance is low. What happened there?

Sure, up and coming rappers are too busy emulating Kanye (who took more than a few cues from Illmatic) to give a shit about Nas.

Educate yourself.

No sarcasm.

Kanye may be forging modern white boy middle-upper class culture, sure, I will grant that, but so is Beyonce, Drake, and now J. Cole. modern white boy middle-upper class culture is never groundbreaking. It is watered down shit son. you know this!

I am spinning the last three Kanye albums though. will get back to you on assessment.

is Bon Iver the ex-singer for Fleet Foxes?

Look out dude! Your ass is leaking words.


You're welcome, but frankly by insisting on taking a superficial, trivial stance on Kanye, you're missing out on stuff that's worlds better than anything in your current rotation.


It wasn't supposed to be a "Sgt. Pepper" and nobody thinks it is. Illmatic wasn't breaking new ground for rap as much as it was upping the ante for what rap could be at the time. It's a distillation of NYC sounds. All of hip-hop is a bit of a scrapbooking project. Pieces cut from past and present to provide a guidebook for the future. Illmatic is the most New York City album of the era, and it helped steer the world away from amusical gangsta rap (which, let's be honest, was the hair metal of hip-hop, even if some good things came from it.)

Anyway, whatever.

never mind. fuck that Bon Iver shit. jesus fuck that's some soft ass bullshit . I almost BARFED.

Spin Yeezus (you like Travi$), MBDTF and Watch the Throne. Try to come at it from a non Kanye-loathing perspective. If you listen to it thinking about how much you hate him, you're just going to confirm your own bias.

Listen for production, allow his personality to shine through a bit. Let it in. One of the most common things I hear from Kanye fans is that they love the personality he brings to his music. When he says he's rocking a "Chewbacca" Star Wars fur, don't get all haughty and high-art snobby about how he's using a low-culture reference. Just be open to it.

I totally understand how anyone, myself included, could watch Kanye or read about Kanye and just hate the fuck out of him based on that. But I cannot grasp how anyone with even a cursory appreciation for hip-hop (or any kind of music really) could listen to Kanye highlights without being impressed, and immediately recognizng that he's in his own class.

"22 (Over S∞∞N)" is one of my favorite tracks of the year. I know he's soft, and he sounds like fucking indie Coldplay a lot of the time, but the first half of 22, a million is full of some really fascinating production and sweet chopped up chipmunk sampling.

His best work has been with Kanye. "Hold my Liquor" etc.

Am I to understand that not you know neither Justin Vernon nor Father John Misty? No shame in that really, I guess. Father John Misty (Fleet Foxes' past drummer, went solo and got big in 2015)I swear overrated and makes me want to hear Jim O'Rourke.

But Jesus man, you must actually put considerable effort into not paying attention to music.

Bon Iver is awful but no, Kanye has made the most interesting and creative music of this century so far. Sorry you ain't feelin' it Rob.

Yeah, Bob Iver is, in general, quite quite bad. But I still really like the first half of the new album, probably because it sounds more like a Kanye record than a Bon Iver one.

I refuse to say the name "correctly" because I will not make an ass of myself in that way. I say it like Bob Jovi... "Ivor" like "ivory." Fuck that nonsense.

I do like his vocals on Kanye tracks though. :)

Look how influential Kanye is to the young black and hispanic kids coming up in the hood and trying to make a career in entertainment. http://abc7.com/entertainment/kanye-...-york/1653734/

;)

Like I said, I am rolling through the last three Kanye albums to give it another "fair shake"

"I wanted to meet with Trump today to discuss multicultural issues.

These issues included bullying, supporting teachers, modernizing curriculums, and violence in Chicago.

I feel it is important to have a direct line of communication with our future President if we truly want change."

Honestly.. at this point I find myself bumping individual songs off the project, mostly those with features, but never the entire thing anymore. I guess a part of me wishes it was more hip hop and less Churchy, if you know what I mean.

The first 2 mins and a half of "How Great" (which is, by the way.. if I ignore that part of the song.. my favorite song on the mixtape. Thank you Jay Elect for my favorite verse of 2016) for example are way too much.

The gospel elements on Coloring Book are too "in your face" sometimes. I wish they were subtle, like they're on D'Angelo albums, Common's Be, and yes.. TLOP.

what exactly did Illmatic steal from Prince Paul? If anything I think of Paul's productions as this huge epic pieces patchworked with lots of guests and humor and skits and changing motifs... Illmatic is 9 songs, no skits, no guests... really simplified.

That's such an odd statement, I'm starting to think willful ignorance/trolling a la Sev.

You think that's all Prince Paul did? Dang, someone else needs to go study some hip hop history! ;)

 

hahaha, funny.

Meh. I've probably put more energy into publicly slamming Donald Trump in the past year than I jabrninto praising Kanye over the past four. Pretty cool t sure I hate Trump as much or more than anyone on this board (skim the Trump thread for months of proof).

But this has no impact on how I feel about his music. Doesn't change a thing, is not relevant.

No he's right. You're demonstrating what I can only describe as a fundamental lack of knowledge and understanding of what you're talking about. You're either doing it on purpose or you're clueless.

I assume he is trying to reference Stetsasonic... but...

Is that an actual Kanye quote? Because that's actually really cohesive for him. I think, as I've said before, that he's on the Autism disorder spectrum. He "communicates" extremely well through music, making songs and albums that come across as clearly as statements of intent. But he is openly obsessive and clearly impulsive and he's a synesthesiac with numerous social instabilities, so autism is not out of the picture by any means.

But ^ that's pretty good. Better than I would expect, and I expect a great deal from him.

Prince Paul did some cool work on the Gravediggaz album. of course early De La Soul.

does Illmatic have anything to do with Prince Paul. eh, not really.

Well, Prince Paul has done a lot over a long career. Gravediggaz, HBMS, De La... but I don't think there's any truth to the claim that Illmatic somehow is guilty of aping these or any of Paul's other projects.

I agree. If anything Illlmatic was born from Main Source, Tribe and Pete Rock. No idea where the Paul thing came from. Guess I dont know much about hip hop or that album...

Nonsense. I'm pretty sure you know more about '90s hip-hop and hip-hop as a whole than I do. And Illmatic? Forgetaboutit.

My tongue was firmly in cheek ;)

Midnight Marauders begat Illmatic which begat The Infamous... a holy trinity.

Yup. I see that.

Btw: in Time's person of the year issue, the editorial staff used the words "undeniable genius" to describe Kanye West (specifically "Famous," which made their top 10 songs of the year. :D

In fairness to rob, when I first heard Kanye's feature on "THat Part," I thought it was possibly the weakest feature he'd ever done.

But after listening to the Blank Face LP a bunch, it became clear that without the double dose of Kanye, it's nothing but an good but redundant beat and a lazy chorus. Kanye's frantic energy (especially at the end) makes it. And it's a standout track because of it. Nice to hear Kanye go absolutely rogue on a verse like that.

I don't know exactly my top ten hip-hop albums list is gonna go down for 2016. I know what's on top, and what's at no. 2, but after that I'm really not sure.

Revisiting Blank Face and Atrocity Exhibition and Black America Again to sort this shit out.

Pretty sure I'm close to having an all-genres list though.

Pitchfork didn't do a bad job on their top 10 this year. Obviously I would have preferred another choice for no. 1, but A Seat at the Table is definitely a great album. Pretty much everything in the top ten is pretty goddamn good.

I've come to realize Kodak Black is pretty fucking great. Definitely the best "newschool" rapper in terms of skill, lyrics and he has the best mixtape (Lil Big Pac). I enjoy his early Cash Money vibes a lot more than all the Uzi's and Yachty's of 2016.

His new vid "There He Go" got 7 million views in 7 days. And "Too Many Years" and "Can I" off Lil Big Pac blew up without promotion while he was in jail.

I like Lil Big Pac, but I'm not over the moon about it. It's a bit redundant vocally.

I agree that Kodak is WAY better than Yachty (who does ok on features but his full songs put me to fucking sleep), but I actually don't hate Lil Uzi Vert. :confused: He has made a few songs that I've liked this year.

ALL of these "new school" kids are making poor production choices. Their songs are all FILLED with yelps and triplets punctuated by WHOAH! or RAH! or BLAH! or YO! like the entire genre is just one giant Mike Will produced Gucci Mane track. Seriously. That is a PROBLEM for these new guys, and even some of the not so new ones. How can anyone be expected to listen to an hour of the same time signature and the same cadence chopped up at the same intervals by the same sounds?

This is why Chance and Kanye owned hip-hop's ass this year. I agree that the "gospel" elements on Coloring Book were VERY heavy-handed, and it's hard to listen to the whole thing, but it's clear Chance understands the value of sonic diversity and production that stands out from the crowd.
Pablo's MUCH more sonically varied than Coloring Book, and succeeds without being dragged down by the heaviness of its "gospel" sound of any singular theme loyalty.

These kids need to learn how to approach music as more than just an opportunity to peacock over someone's tired beat. Luckily Kanye and Tribe and Common and Danny are all still around to — hopefully — rub off on the kids a bit.

By the way I listened to some of 4 Your Eyez Only today.

You're right, it's really quite bad. Not Drake bad, but not good. It sounds like Cole has given up on trying to be Ye and is now determined to be the poor man's Kendrick. What's worse, Kendrick seems to like the guy, and I just saw something about that collar album between them still happening. Yuck. I do not want that. Kendrick has gone 4 for 4 with his albums (I'm counting untitled unmastered. an album). This would fuck his streak up.

Honestly, I think Born Sinner is better than this new one. At least that one was bouncy and you could hear BIG on it. ;)