Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeetttttt

Yeah. Gotta give it to Brazil. I think a lot of people (myself included) were waiting for them to fuck up, but they did it, and under the very pressure I thought they'd freeze under - albeit against a Spain side that, even given the factor of fatigue, do seem to be missing something.

i take back everything i said about felipao.

i heard in the commentary (univision, not espn which was utter shit) that he had spent 10 hours watching and rewatching the barcelona/bayern CL match, trying to figure out how to kill spain.

good man!

(also, i thought del bosque made some big errors, like not starting navas)


...Messi? :D

Haha, but they do seem to be missing a certain precision in their passin and an overall intensity to their play. I'm sure they are tired but no more than they would've been in other post-season tournaments, when they've looked almost unbeatable. And while it's a cliche to talk about teams needing a plan b, it's something Spain do seem to lack.

It'll be interesting to see where the bookies put them in the run up to the WC. They're obviously capable of winning it but I'm not sure I'd make them favourites anymore. Brazil will be obvious candidates now, along with I suppose Germany and Argentina. Spain too but not with anything like the same confidence as there was in previous tournaments.

lack of precision is because brazil tamped them in their own half just like bayern did to barça. overall intensity is the fatigue-- del bosque played the same fucking 11 he played on the semis, didn't he?

and yes the lack of a plan b is what people have been talking about. they did not know what the fuck to do.

meanwhile, people like javi martinez wasted their energy on the bench while del bosque continued the same old shit.

spain just won the U21 cup though so they have some awesome players coming up but if they stick to the same old tired squad they will continue to crumble.

Well that was a brilliant match. I think Brazil stunned everyone at how they pulled that one off by such an big margin. Spain's defence really was shocking though. So many stupid mistakes made by them

Neymar....NeymarNeymarNeymar....yeah I'll give him this-he can play. The fact that it took 3 Spanish players to get him down when he got a run said it all.

So Spain can be beaten in a big way. Only took 6 years!

I'll accept the fatigue to some degree and Brazil definitely contained them but a lot of the missed passes were unforced errors. Just sloppy and, as H8kurdt said, defensively they were way below standard, even given the absence of Puyol. I definitely agree that they now need to start looking at players like Martinez.

i love puyol but he is like, 300 years old! he didn't play most of last year due to injury! teams gotta renew or perish (e.g., uruguay). piqué is too busy worrying about shakira. up front, torres the giant lesbian needs to go also-- he only scores against tahiti and nigeria. del bosque for some reason loves him.

zonal marking says spain was beat on "pace and power". martinez would have given them exactly that, and resting some of the most exhausted players i think would have allowed them to match that a little better. cazorla? soldado? and if arbeloa was going to be subbed so soon he shouldn't have started in the first place (arbeloa is 30, neymar 21)

For me seeing Spain finally Fall feels like what it must have meant for the rest of America when the Lakers finally lost in 2004 and then again in 2008. As for me? I am excited about the upcoming Gold Cup! In 2011 America got clowned here in LA at the Rose Bowl (sighs..) It was a rough summer what with the Miami Heat losing to Dallas and then the USMNT falling just a few missed plays short of the Gold Cup. With Heat now having won back-to-back Championships AND the USMNT finally starting to find a rhythm and look good under Klinsmann and a Germanic style while Mexico is slumping terribly in the World Cup Qualifiers I dare say this summer might be revenge. I seriously think the US can do it and there is no better time for Landon Donovan to make a Michael Jordan like reappearance!

Haha! By a crazy coincidence, two of those Quarterfinal games will played at my two NFL teams' stadiums, the ATL Falcons GeorgiaDome and also the Baltimore Ravens' M&T Bank Stadium.

I take on board the "pace and power" point and you're right about Puyol but I do think Spain have lost a bit of their past urgency. It certainly sets everything up for a fascinating WC, though.

right, but there might be a number of reasons why they looked more subdued. i don't think they didn't "want" to win though, it's just that brazil wanted it much more, with them being the hosts and one year away from their world cup and what not. they way the team and the crowd kept singing the national anthem after the standard recording was over was a big show of that. yeah the brazilians wanted it really bad. to me, that incredible save by david luiz encapsulates their whole attitude-- they gave it all. well, once they were up 3-0 they slowed down a bit but if they really wanted they probably could have made it 4-0.

but mind you, they could give it all because they are more accustomed to the heat, had an extra day of rest, didn't play overtime in the prior match, and fielded a younger team all-around. plus, of course, the emotional aspect of it. they wanted it really really bad.

i was thinking about this "accustomed to the heat" thing. most of the brazilian players in the starting 11 play over in Europe (baring Neymar and Fred (hmm, oddly the ones who score, never mind that!). do you think since they grew up playing in brazil this stays with them because a lot of the players play in england, spain (barcelona and madrid are cold as fuck in the winter!), and even russia (hulk!). I'm just wondering if thats a real advantage for such an international team.

i think ultimately it's probably more psychological than anything else though there might be some pphysiological adaptations (as it happens with altitude). i know for a fact the european cold can be quite atrocious for a lot of south americans (so you'll see them wearing gloves, etc.), but you know, everyone has to learn to suck it up and get used to it-- and so you have hulk playing for st petersburg. but the reverse doesn't always happen, i.e. european footballers don't often have to make a living in the tropics. well, some maybe do, but they probably don't play for their national teams anyway.

Yeah, I wouldn't put much emphasis on the heat. Brazil definitely seemed to want it more, but Spain were similarly not that impressive against Italy, either. The one factor I don't think we've mentioned yet is the degree to which Spain are missing Alonso. I'm not sure he'd have been the ultimate difference maker but he's almost as pivotal as Xavi to their overall shape.

you're right, but again, he's gonna be 32 1/2 come the next world cup. and while medical advances are increasing the average longevity of players, they are also increasing the performance of 22 year olds.

Exactly. I'm not saying Spain are suddenly bad just that they're an ageing squad and inevitably aren't as sharp as when they were at their peak a few years ago. They have great young players coming in but it'll obviously take some time for them to move from being transitionary figures, required to fit into the shape defined by Xavi, Alonso, Iniesta, etc., to having a system built around them.

Fixed that for you ;)

Spain have reached what in NBA we call Championship fatigue. In basketball, every few years one team gets so fucking good that they make the Finals for 2-4 consecutive years, and this correlates to about 50-90 EXTRA games than just the regular season. NO group of humans, even with a lifetime supply of Deer Antler Spray can maintain dominance across that many fucking games. They inevitably slip. It happened to the 80s Lakers. It happened to the 90s Bulls. It happened to the 2000s Lakers. It happened again to the 2008-2011 Lakers. It will happen to the Miami Heat who just played three Finals appearance winning back to back. It just happened to Spain, and I predict their recent years of dominance have come to an end. Further I hope more so embarrassingly than gracefully. Oh, did I mention I don't like Spain?

Also, no love for the Gold Cup?

What I've been trying to drive at I suppose is that interim tournaments like these are ideal to test out new players and tactical schemes but instead they've kept beating they same old tired horse-- it's not just age or motivation but people have now figured out how to beat them tactically--and they haven't addressed that. So it's a two-pronged challenge.

Their U21 team was fantastic btw. I had a recording of the final but I deleted it. They should give some of those whippersnappers a chance ha ha ha.

I can't disagree with that, although it's fair to say that not many of the younger players who did feature really shone either. But ultimately I agree.

So if it is then they can look at being the only team to win the euro-world cup-euro in one run? Yeah I think I could live with that if I was in the Spanish team.

HOWEVER whilst I may not be their biggest fan, you honestly think this is the end for them and that they'll not have a decent run in the world cup? Like people have been with Barcelona (including me) people are too quick to count one loss as the end of an era. How fickle footy fans can be.

This is to suchfriends btw.

degea + isco + bartra + koke + morata + rodrigo + thiago alcantara are ready to be tested

--

ps- ^^ this also for h8kurdt.

I know this was meant for Suchfriends but I agree, any claims that Spain are over are talking bollocks. This particular side may be starting to show its age but the depth of young talent in Spain is ridiculous. I just see this as a bit of a transition for them.

In terms of the WC I think a lot will depend on if Brazil can continue to evolve and what Germany look like. I also think Argentina could have a decent shout, but either way, even this current Spain will be contenders, for sure.

That is true. The US team is sending some newbies to the Gold Cup to test em out for the World Cup and see if they gel alongside some of our go-to guys like Donovan, Altidore, Dempsey, and Gomez. I noticed conspicuously that Tim Howard is missing. I actually like that. I like Tim, but I dare say the guy takes to many fucking risks, and its cost us some crucial matches in the past. Its time to try something different and move on I say.

Timmy is one of the best goalkeepers in the world. That being said, this might be his last World Cup. He's getting up there in age.

Thankfully Brad Guzan is no slouch. He had a great season with Aston Villa and some good outings with the USMNT.

Goalkeeper position is not one the US usually needs to worry about. We're in good hands (pun intended).

I don't think Spain is contending any more. Again, Championship fatigue is no joke, and human bodies can only be pushed so hard. Spain would have to reload like crazy, and I just don't see that happening, further, many teams now have years worth of footage to draw on for effective strategies. Spain is going to have to quite literally go back to the drawing board and evolve some new plays if they want to continue to dominate, because what they used to win before has become more predictable and therefore more easy to defend.



Tim Howard WAS one of the best goalkeepers in the world, but point blank, if he hadn't have made that gamble running out to get the stop in the Gold Cup final in 2011, US would have won that game. He makes A LOT of those bad decisions. Essentially, Tim Howard is like the Miami Heat of goal-keeping. He is uber-athletic, fast, and strong, but his entire strategy is predicated on risk taking relying on his athleticism. Smarter goal-keepers stay planted more near the box, Tim likes to run down field to get the stops, but IF or WHEN he misses, it leaves the goal WIDE THE FUCK OPEN. It is the double-edged sword that is Tim Howard. When its good, its solid gold stops, but when he misses? GAME OVER.

I think that when we finally let Tim go, we may just advance further than before, and this Gold Cup is our chance to prove that before the World Cup next year.

Some tactical change is inevitable as younger players start to come in but I disagree that teams have now found them out. There was never any mystery to how they played, it was just outrageously difficult to counter because they were so damn good at it. As they've started to lose some of their sharpness so they've made it increasingly easier for teams to find a way through but I see that as more to do with the players than I do the system. Full credit to Brazil but they really aren't that good and I'm convinced that, had they played the same way a few years ago against this same Spain side, it would've been a very different result.

Suarez to Arsenal?

It doesn't add up to me but some bookies have apparently stopped taking bets on it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...l-8687995.html

i thought his whole deal was to get out of england to avoid the british media that was hounding him.

yeah, with isco, thiago, montoya, morata, de gea, munianian(sp?), coming in i don't think spain is bad shape at all.

Totally. And the fact that they have an underlying way of playing means they can keep producing players ready to slot into it. But no team dominates forever. There'll be times when other teams come along that're in better shape, or simply happen to have better individual players than them. Long-term, though, I still think Spain are in a far healthier shape than most.

watch the magic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=438wakqfQbY

Which team has more of an embarrassment of riches, Spain or Germany?

Germany currently has a stronger 1st XI but Spain probably has greater quality in depth, IMO.

damn. today's team, one-on-one, and on paper, i'd say germany has better individual players but somehow joachim löw hasn't been able to make them gel the right way (put heynckes in charge!). yes i blame the coach.

however, looking at the up-and-comers (i didn't see germany on the uefa u21 but they got eliminated in group stage), spain looks like the next big monster. provided they can be harnessed by the right coach with the right tactics, they should rule for another decade.

Germany's u21s look very average relative to the supposed strength of their youth system. Gotze's an obvious individual exception, but how Germans must despair at David Alaba being Austrian. Give it a few more seasons and he'll likely be the best LB on the planet.

Joachim Low's manner deflects from his real achievements I think. The only possible blot on his reputation might be Germany's freeze up in the latter stages of the last Euros (albeit at around the same time Heynckes' Bayern did the same in the CL final). He's not an easy man to take seriously but given that his spell as coach has been during a period of such emphatic Spanish dominance (which must feel akin to taking up golf during the Tiger Woods era) I'd say he's done very well. But with Spain in transition and the remaining uncertainties as to just how good Brazil really are, it'll be interesting to see how he copes with the very high level of expectation that'll follow Germany into the next WC.

PS: Haven't forgotten that article, btw, just wasn't in work last week.

gomez going to fiorentina! sad, he's being sold for about half of what they paid for him in 2009. i hope he gets back in form. he used to be an amazing goalscorer!

and david villa is off to athletico madrid. by law it seems like they have to have great striker in their squad at all times. one leaves another comes in. torres-forlan-aquero-falcao-villa. pretty impressive actually. i must must admit i wanted to see him go to the premier league to see how he would fare there.

yes, but what is "spanish dominance"? it's individual talent + good tactics.

german has had excellent individual talent, second to none, but where it has failed is on the tactical level. which is why low is low in my eyes. it's not about his mannerisms or personality or the fact that he eats boogers and sniffs his own armpit, that's dissgusting but i couldn't give 2 shits if he was a winner-- the problem is that he hasn't taken germany to any finals, has he? and he's had the core of bayern munchen all along, players who know and understand each other.

lost to italy in the 2008 euros (i don't know the whole details of his banishment) edit: <-WRONG AS FUCK
3rd place in the 2010 wold cup (okay, champion Spain got them in the semis)
lost in the semis to italy in the 2012 euros

i mean, i love the attacking style that he helped klinsmann introduce, but it's time he wins something instead of getting punked by the difficult teams (spain, italy).

this generation of players (remember how schweinsteiger dazzled everyone in 2006?) is getting old, and 2014 might be their last chance at winning something big-- looks like spain is going to get better reinforcements from their youth squad (again, if del bosque will fucking have them).

Given the nature of tournament football (especially international tournament football), I think tactics play a relatively minor role. Besides obviously talent, fitness, etc, the next most important ingredient for winning something like the Euros or the WC, in my opinion (besides a bit of luck) is nerve, or strength of character. No one can question the talent of a number of German players during the Low era but, you'd have to agree, there's been doubts about quite a few of them in that particular area, at least until only very recently. Spain didn't always win every tournament by playing brilliant football, but they were always unflappable in the big games. For all their diminutive stature and emphasis on flair rather than strength, they were as hard as nails where they needed to be. Ramos? Puyol? Busquets? These weren't necessarily the most technically gifted players but they were all big game ones. Add that to the ice cool intelligence of Xavi and Xabi-Alonso, and the out and out skill of Iniesta, and you have the real reason why Spain were able to dominate the way they did.

We can blame some of Germany's alleged mental fragility on Low but it was something that, until last season, also appeared to be an issue with Heynckes' Bayern. So we really have to point the finger mainly at individual players. (And Low did take them to a final, in Euro 2008.)

So are we all going to ignore the recent beheading in Brazil?