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it's funny because you're proving what i said to be correct. but i know that your mighty highness should not have to lower himself to read something he deems as "whiny".
you want a summary? its time for certain fatuous self important males to realise that if they only shut up and listened to other people, like, women, they might learn something instead of boring us all to death with their need to drone on and on till everyone has heard them express their judgement and finality on the subject proving them king of truth for all eternity. if they did this they might actually get the pussy they seem to come on here and compensate for lacking. but not you of course. something like that. only i tried to be more sympathetic and framed it nicer, and tried to show a bit of compassion towards the end. |
i am on the case.
and no i didn't know that, no wonder. that actually makes sense. |
you want a summary? its time for certain fatuous self important males to realise that if they only shut up and listened to other people, like, women, they might learn something instead of boring us all to death with their need to drone on and on till everyone has heard them express their judgement and finality on the subject proving them king of truth for all eternity. if they did this they might actually get the pussy they seem to be desperately lacking.
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I'm in love with my best friend of 8+ years.
now....if you guys can please keep quiet while I rub one out thinking of unicrons, I'd appreciate it. |
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i don't know if that was directed at me, but if it was (i suspect it was) there's a lot wrong with it i listen to women, and my nudity-filled post was an illustrated response to knox and the points she made. i was hoping she'd respond sooner because i enjoy her arguments. i might drone on and on, but i'm not expressing finality on the subject-- i actually love hearing good counterarguments. if nik can't make counterarguments and prefers to rant, that's his call. about lacking "pussy"-- who is objectifying here? i don't come here to "look for pussy", ive been married for almost 7 years and while we've had our share of troubles, drama, fights, lunacy, and even temporary separations, we do have a very strong bond that i rarely discuss here in this shithole, because i don't want it soiled by "you people". but since i work at home i actually come here to horse around, and i enjoy the mostly unfiltered nature of the process (which is why i dislike facebook) anyway, if nik was talking about someone else, i still think he's making too many hysterical extrapolations. although i know flotto found "pussy" online (my apologies flotto + ms, it's how nik put it)-- in spite, or perhaps because, of his japanese calamari fetish, i don't think people come here to impress anybody-- it's more like we enjoy making asses of ourselves. at least that's my approach to this place. and then sometimes i get serious. |
right. its not directed at anyone in particualar, just the composite of behaviour i read here. i guess i can see that because you have a wife you feel some need to use the board to make an ass of yourself.
the point might not to be to talk so you can enjoy countering the counter arguments, but to listen and think about what someone else has said? because nobody in my mind has properly listened to what the women have been saying here, because if they would have they would address the issue of the images. they would have agreed to only keep them to the one thread, because as i said in my post you are acting like you are too stuck up to read but still comment upon, it's getting nauseating. and i think that that shows a lack of respect for women here, because you all went on and on, as if to say "we are gonna just keep posting whatever the hell we want and you can listen to us justify it." you started arguments about the definition of objectification, but it all seemed to be solely for the purpose of proving you didn't have to change anything about the way you thought or behaved. it seemed only to occur to you to prove yourselves, not consider changing anything. this to me is the ultimate example of male fuckheadedness in a conversation and i am totally guilty of it all the time. so my suggestion is to so show some respect for women (and the rest of us) in what you DO here and keep the grossness to one thread? fair enough? you could also try to tone down the mysogyny in the way you all talk about women sometimes? sound reasonable? |
sorry if you find the naked women gross man, i don't, i'm used to seeing that stuff everywhere, so i apologize if i hurt your delicate sensibilities.
i needed those pictures to illustrate my point, which is actually that women are accomplices in their own commodification and that photos of people are not real people. i did show examples to bolster my argument, not to "post some ass" maybe you need to practice what you're preaching and read for comprehension, like you ask other people to do? for the record: a woman (BTD) gave me pos rep for that post, so don't make yourself the spokesman for all women in the universe-- yes? you're a smart dude and i like you, but you're aware that sometimes you get a little deranged, don't you? (i'm guilty of the same, by the way-- i get angry and rant). i'd love to read your arguments after you take a deep breath or two. |
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did you see n'ik post that first? i was just being a brat and copying what he said. but i really do think he has a point. keep the pictures of ladies titties,asses,thighs,and vaginas (and even mens titties,asses,thighs,and outside-vaginas) in one thread. its sometimes embarressing borrowing friends laptops and having them look over my shoulder and be like, 'YOURE INTO THAT???' not that i can ever recall that happening but it probably has/will. |
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im not talking specifically about the images you posted. im talking about the constant barrage of them, all the gross porn, that's posted everywhere by loads of guys here. so your sensibilites aren't delicate and are hard like a mans or some shit, but maybe when other peoples are you and they complain you could all try to just relegate them to the one thread? i don't find that particularily unreasonable. but yeah, you just sadly seem to be proving some of my criticisms of guys here right again by the way you are engaging with me. |
and you WERE making a really good point @#$&#($*&#; I could see that.
but some of the stuff that gets posted on here is fucking nasty. you could never ever call it 'tasteful' it's about drawing a line somewhere, you know? like some gif images that i've seen on here are gross. amerikangods where the wrestler dude grabs the ladies vagina for example. i found that offensive. AND, NO AMERIKANGOD, you don't need to reiterate what you said about taking things too seriously... but i have a friend who got her puss grabbed at a party once by a big baseball player, and there was nothing funny about hearing that story the morning after. it's fucking degrading. |
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yes of course, i saw you reposting as the summary of his argument. i do think he overreacted though, by ignoring the fact that the pictures are posted were central to my argument in this conversation i'm trying to have with knox, while he screams that we "don't listen to women". oy..... anyway, peace and love, etc. did i tell you i wanted to rep you for that oxytocin post? smart. |
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which one? the first one? i had to repeat myself 4 times. |
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Dear *&¨%¨% Whether this people chose or not to sell a dehumanized idea of themselves for some bucks, very often the ways that we come across them (specially women) have nothing to do with choice. I don't agree with censorship and I have never suggested it. My initial point was when I come to a Sonic Youth forum it generally means I expect to find something other than I can find in adverts and gossip magazines. Hence the dissapointment when I suddenly realized for a few days the main activity was no different than the one you see in any given shitty website. I cannot help being surrounded by these objectifying images of women, for as long as I can remember. I cannot help being categorized, patronized, and labelled according to them. I can't help the pressure they have brought upon. I can't help the feeling of void whenever I notice people's ability to completely dehumanize a body (because if we're to be honest that's what we feel - we know at some point it was or will be done to us). Therefore, I had no choice. NO CHOICE AT ALL. I never once blamed men solely for sexism and once again I'm insulted that you even suggest that I need to remember that. All I need to do is voice my opinion and suddenly I'm labelled in a stereotypical category that's people's idea of feminism. Women are incredibly sexist and in many ways responsible for perpetuating patriarchal ideals. Women are not the only victims of sexism - it's humanity in general. I'm somehow shocked that you say that you're not posting real women. Because that's like the ultimate admission of objetification. There is no such thing as a woman that is not 'real'. It's that very thought that baffles me. The very same thinking you've shown: You gotta take me out for a coffee so I can become a real person. Do you understand that many people have turned it into that? The first assumption is I am an object (as long as you don't know me I don't need to be seen as a human being). If you don't take me for a cup of coffee I remain like that. That happens in real life to real women as a consequence of these twisted thoughts. I don't know one woman who hasn't felt that way. It's nothing new tho. Women have been objects/property in most societies for thousands of years now. (Drop your father's name take your husband's name now that you've changed owners). And then you get people with Rob's cop out strategy: I am a good guy, ya'll. In real life, I treat women real nice. Things have been worse in our society before, so I think it's all ok!!!! I don't need to think about the morals behind my actions because everyone's doing it guys! YOU KNOW, that's the majority. From my point of view, everytime you bring something out men get pretty defensive as if they're being accused or something or whatever. It's not like they wanna hear what it feels like, they just want to excuse themselves. It's not like most people are prepared to find out that even tho they are mostly good people, we also take part in the most evil of the human world. Sometimes not doing is way way more criminal than doing. I DONT KNOW, but you know. There are women on this forum. Perhaps we just get fucking tired of seeing tits and ass and pussies everywhere. Maybe it makes us FEEL bad. Maybe that should be kept in some wanking guys threads, just so we'd know, just out of some degree of respect. |
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yeah i don't find beating up women funny at all and that gif sucks. however, i do like the freewheeling nature of this place. and if that means i have to avert my eyes when i see some unpleasant shit (there is plenty), i'll avert my eyes and move on to what interests me. it's a conscious choice. i could go frequent censored and managed boards but those usually suck. the price of freedom is having to put up with shit we dislike in others-- like the presence of keep it simpleton, for example-- that shouldn't keep us from expressing our opinion on it though, so calling someone on their unpleasant shit is totally fair game, and so on & so forth. |
also, i love nik.
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i already addressed that it wasn't specifically the ones you posted. you're purposefully ignoring me and as ive said so many times already proving what i said right. i'm not offended by it, but i will say you should try a bit harder to listen, instead of painting me as hysterical and trying to back out now that you've got the last word in. i'm sure you can do better. so far you have just provided an example of the kind of attitude i was complaining about in the first place. i think it's you that overreacted in saying that a post you didn't read was hysterical. what's hysterical is refusing to read it because even the slightest criticism of how you are behaving could not possibly have merit. you sir, could do a lot better than that. ____________________ and everyone here should step up to the plate and prove they have some respect for women by keeping the gross porn and stuff to one particular thread. |
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hold on man, i'm trying to read your post right above this, gimme some time to digest before you jump on my throat. time-out.... |
page 13 is tl;dr .
except for that unicron pic at the top. i read that part |
Also, not many women post on this forum. The few that do have been doing it less. Does it occur to anyone that you might be driving women away? I sometimes wonder if guys in general are more interested in women or other guy's approval and pat in the back.
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other guy's approval. not even close
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fapfapfapfapfafpafpafapfapafpafapfpafap
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Hello Knoxy. Good to hear back from you.
I'm somehow shocked that you say that you're not posting real women. Because that's like the ultimate admission of objetification. There is no such thing as a woman that is not 'real'. It's that very thought that baffles me. that's why i posted the pipe image-- "this isn't a pipe" (it's a picture of a pipe) (also, it's a french joke). my point is that those pictures are pictures, not women. we often equate the image with the thing but there is a disconnect. those images are objects. they aren't women. now, you could argue that those images promote the objectification of women, but that's a different debate. i'd be happy to discuss that but i first wanted to get out of the way that pictures are NOT people. The very same thinking you've shown: You gotta take me out for a coffee so I can become a real person. Do you understand that many people have turned it into that? The first assumption is I am an object (as long as you don't know me I don't need to be seen as a human being). If you don't take me for a cup of coffee I remain like that. I've never assumed that you are an object because you have never presented yourself as such. We've had talks on and off threads and I don't know why you would assume I think you're not a "real" person. The coffee thing-- was just a hypothetical, not to take literally. I was just attempting to contrast the object/commodity (the sexy picture) from the actual existence of actual people whose picture was taken. It is true that there are many idiots out there who commodify other people (the size of their wallet, their penis, their bra size, their social status, etc), but that is a deeper problem than the existence of pornographic pictures. Both men and women tend to approach relationships as some kind of market transaction in which they can exchange "desirable attributes"-- just look at personal ads. That happens in real life to real women as a consequence of these twisted thoughts. I don't know one woman who hasn't felt that way. It's nothing new tho. Women have been objects/property in most societies for thousands of years now. (Drop your father's name take your husband's name now that you've changed owners). Funny, my wife has kept her own last name as we find that name change a bit ridiculous. And I know that happens in real life, but again, it goes beyond just sex. And then you get people with Rob's cop out strategy: I am a good guy, ya'll. In real life, I treat women real nice. Things have been worse in our society before, so I think it's all ok!!!! I don't need to think about the morals behind my actions because everyone's doing it guys! YOU KNOW, that's the majority. Well, I truly believe in Rob's good faith and I think he's nice to his girlfriend and loves her and would do anything for her. I'm not ready to condemn him because he likes pictures of girls with big asses. There are OTHER people however who see women as nothing more than "a piece of ass", but I actually think that's a psychopathic minority, and that most people are looking for meaningful relationships in spite of the fact that we live in a very deranged society. Having recognized that, I'll say that I cannot make myself responsible for the sins of all humanity. There was a dude who tried that, and they crucified him. From my point of view, everytime you bring something out men get pretty defensive as if they're being accused or something or whatever. It's not like they wanna hear what it feels like, they just want to excuse themselves. It's not like most people are prepared to find out that even tho they are mostly good people, we also take part in the most evil of the human world. Yeah I see your point and you're right on the mark there. Which reminds me of the very final scene in "Demonlover". You've seen it? However, I don't think that desire or asthetic enjoyent or whatever it is that gives a market to pornography is bad in itself--- it's that the pornography exploits desire and natural human instincts. But the thing is, very few people take pornography seriously and/or guide their lives by it. Sure, there are mental cases, and shut-ins, and but for most people it's simply a masturbation aid and not a guide to life. Sometimes not doing is way way more criminal than doing. I don't get how this applies to this exactly, maybe you care to elaborate or maybe it's not central to your argument-- your call. I DONT KNOW, but you know. There are women on this forum. Perhaps we just get fucking tired of seeing tits and ass and pussies everywhere. Maybe it makes us FEEL bad. Maybe that should be kept in some wanking guys threads, just so we'd know, just out of some degree of respect. Yes, ok, I do see your point. Sometimes this feels too much like a sailor bar, but it's up to those who do not like that environment to either fight back or create alternative spaces or just avert your eyes. Which goes back to my point of the free board-- you have to tolerate shit, but you have every right to give shit as well. So-- give us shit! You definitely have my ear and I'm not making excuses. Wow, I've written a lot here and I don't know how the whole thing reads. I hope it makes sense. |
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oh i wasn't aware of that. and the gross porn-- ok. my sensibilities are quite delicate actually, in spite of my "fuck you" internet persona. although i have a cynical streak that can laugh at almost any horror. i can engage differently with you, as i often do, but you know you tend to overheat sometimes, no? and for the record, i've admitted the same behavior in myself-- yes? it takes one to know one. i have plenty of mad rants to show i'm as guilty as you if not more. anyway-- friends? :p i need a rest from this board. i've been typing like mad for like 2 hours. my wife is out of town, by the way, which is why i'm spending too much time here :( thanks for keeping me company, you mad bastard. |
Since when do girls not love assholes? I've tried being the nice guy for years, and it never got me laid once. At best, it imprisoned me in the everlasting "friend zone" (Friends with a girl? Disgusting, I know). But, ever since I wised up, and started talking a little smack, here and there... I've at least had some minor luck with the opposite sex (including a girl whom I devotedly dated for over 2 years).
I could care less if you guys believe me or not, but from my experience WOMEN LOVE DICKS. EDIT: I think it may have to do with the obvious sarcastic spin I throw on my witty one-liners, but trust me - they work. There is absolutely nothing that a girl loves more than confidence. It's in their wiring. |
You guys are twisting my whole point. I never said anything about pornography and those images are not pornography (not even legally speaking).
You said I am not an object because I didn't present myself to you as such. But is it ok if I am to anyone else who hasn't talked to me? Just because we're good people and we treat the people we know nicely, does it mean that we do not spread any nasty moral cultural viruses that we should probably analyse better? By excusing ourselves because we're "good people", isn't that how we spread discrimination, classism, racism, sexism, xenophobia and all horrors? You never mentioned anything about choice. You said something about those women having a choice, but not the women who are surrounded by these images everywhere. It seems that it makes Nik's point more obvious, that no one is interested in what we're saying (a few people have respectfully requested that the boy's club should be kept in one thread) but no one did anything other than justify why they don't give a shit about how others feel. This spreading social stereotypes, leaving gay men and women to get the worst end of the shit and straight boy to live in this constant anxiety of what is it that a man is supposed to be. All this bullshit discussion is something I would expect from any bullshit workspace filled with mediocre people. I guess I'm too naive to think Sonic Youth fans would be different. I don't know why. I had this boyfriend once who was a Sonic Youth fan. I once told him as a teenager I would listen to Kim Gordon's songs and go like yeah yeah I relate to this message and then he said I listened to her songs too, just so I could jerk off to her voice. I should have known back then. |
I don't have respect for either gender. Women are just more aesthetically pleasing to me.
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my eyes hurt but the choice i put in my post to better than deux above
ok i need to get off the machine but no, i don't assume that people are objects, regardles. i only assume that objects (pictures) are objects. and also there are people who purposely objectify themselves but that's another story. oh! the phone! i am saved... |
?'@:c2, you make an interesting point about the posting of certain pictures, and one I partly agree with. What if someone would start posting pictures of kids in sexual situations on a regular basis though? Would that make them less attached to the nudity they are posting?
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Fuck all the talk about objectification, I just get tired of the constant barrage of pictures of naked women. It's annoying to check the forum and see nothing new apart from pictures of women who all look the same. When I need a well-deserved wank, like hell I'd come to SYG for my viewing pleasure.
This has probably been said by others, with probably the same words, so throw me in with that lot. |
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it's clearly not the same, because while a grownup can decide to sell pictures of their funbags (this term, i learned, covers both nuts and boobage) for other people to get aroused, a child is not equipped to make such decisions, so in this case the picture would not be a sexy object but evidence in a criminal investigation. wouldn't you agree? |
i feel bad about the way i view women sometimes
~whateva~ |
Indeed I agree. There are plenty of women exploited for pornographic purposes, though, and there's no way for us to tell the ones who are from the ones who are not. While Baby Jane from Sacramento or something might have made a fulfilling career out of posing naked for an internet website, Lola Windsor from Orlando would tell you a different story.
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i guess at some point responsible porn consumers will have to start knowing their source the same way conscious consumers purchase local/organic/cruelty-free food? i've never bought porn though, so i wouldn't know where to begin getting "certified humane porn" or anything like that. one thing i'll tell you is that i find fake-rape porn truly revolting. i wonder if sometimes some of those are not staged but real. brrrr!!!!!!! it gives me the willies. |
surely to ''sterotype'' you i'd have to be female myself no? or you're victimising the reverse perhaps?
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Which is more offensive, tons of pictures of naked women or tons of parody threads?
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i guess it's a plausible explanation, but it's a common theme on japanese sex stuff, even hentai-- i guess it's cultural or something-- but it's creepy and i don't get it. does rape give japanese men boners? weird... |
Oh, I wasn't going to say anything, but I just wanted to say that there's a lot of conflating of biological facts with more complex social quandaries going on. Why not just say "Humans are biologically inclined towards sex, therefore it's ok if I rape this 12-year-old. Come on, she wants it"?
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japanese guys get boners from watching videos of women kicking dudes in their pixeled out balls. Or watching videos of women putting cockroaches in a blender, drinking them, the puking them over a guy's nob then sucking him off. |
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what do you mean "might"? |
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