Well, someone was clearly full of shit some time ago.

Resurrecting this thread to point out that I was full of shit.

And also in the hope of coaxing Noumenal back.

And also because I wanted to continue to espouse the virtues of Schnittke, whose 10 symphonies I got for Christmas and I CANNOT STOP TELLING PEOPLE HOW GREAT THEY ARE.

Also, Helmut Lachenmann.
Also, Giacanto Scelsi.
Also, Jakob Ullmann.
Also, Tristan Murail.
Also, Gerard Grisey.
Also, Mozart's quartets clearly shit on Bartok's.

i recently bought all of bartoks quartets.
somebody gave me steve reich remixed for my B-day but i switched it for Arvo Part's Misere-Festina Lenta-sarah was ninety years old, on ECMi
i also got Parsifal and Meistersinger on DVD.

i just finished the history of music 20th century course and it turned me on to some great music by lutoslawski, berio and a few others that i wasnty that familiar with.
Glice, i have been listening a bit to scnittke's 1st and 4th (the 4th i need for my music class) any specific recordings preferred for scnittke?

I'd say anything with Kremer. Not just because, y'know, it's Kremer but because I think he's just cold enough to play it well without quite being analytical like, say, Arditti.

The version of the 4th I have is the Stockholm Sinfonietta.

I would seriously avoid the Kronos quartet's recording of the quartets - it's great, because it's Schnittke, but it really felt very by-numbers to me.

Berio's someone I've never really got the hang of - what would you recommend of his? Lutoslawski is someone I've always enjoyed but have only picked up the Naxos cello concerto by him. I don't know what those Russians put in the water, but fair play to them.

the berio that i heard was his sinfonia. the 3rd movement especially. if you are not familiar with it id check it out. the third movement is based on part of mahlers second symphony with all the strange sound collages of quotes from different pieces and places. and thanks i will try to look for some more schnittke symphonies ...

Oh, I have heard that. A while ago now. Didn't really do it for me, I don't tend to like collages or referencing other pieces (in spite of my liking Schnittke and Shosters). But I'll take another listen, see if things have changed.

holy shit, listening to schnittke's string quartets now, and so far my mind is being blown.

I saw the Arditti quartet doing his second. AMAZING.

Song in which every verse is filled with grief is beyond... just beyond.

I don't know if I agree with you about Mozart shitting on Bartok quartets.

First time I've heard of Schnittke is in this thread. Really digging this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKVhi-VbNqs. I have a feeling it's all I'm going to be listening to for the next month, as I'm sort of spent on yr usual punk/indie fare. I kind of wish more "alternative" musicians had EARS, yanno?

wow, the arditti are amazing.
is the sing in which every verse filled with grief the title of one of his quartets?

and yeah, i first started listening to schnittke because i studied him in a class and because of glice's recommendation. he is amazing.

at this moment i am going through mozarts string quintets. they are pretty great except that the ensemble is not that impressive.

The Ardittis also did a piece by Dusapin, who seems pretty lovelly to me.

Also, I've been listening to a bit of Gloria Coates of late, who's not the most 'radical' of composers, but quite good nonetheless.

Those of you who've enjoyed Schnittke may want to check out Allan Patterson's symphonies. Exquisite.

Glice, what do you think of Edgard Varèse ?

I've never really been terrifically impressed with any recordings I have. It takes quite a concentrative listen to get much out of it. Obviously, he's timbrally very acute, but I wonder if that isn't better illustrated by the spectralists on the acoustic side or musique concrete on the other. Also, I tend to think that Scelsi's music does nothing in a more interesting way.

I mean, Varése is important, and I can appreciate him on that level and see why, but it doesn't really get me overly excited (much like middle-period Schoenberg).

Interesting, I'm not too big of a fan either but I didn't know if I just wasn't trying hard enough.

I know a lot of people don't like this line of thinking, but part of the thing with classical music is that it's not necessarily a visceral, primal pleasure but more often 'academic' (in a loose sense). It took me ages to get the hang of R Strauss on an emotional level, but I was sat there for a while going 'but it's clearly very good'. I think with classical music - and a lot of 'art' music in general - it's kind of ok to not feel like something is 'beautiful' but to admire the construction, playing and so on in a cerebral sense.

I don't think this means that you need to have formal training in music theory (I certainly don't have that), and classical music isn't meant to be a museum piece, but a little bit of standing back from the visceral thrills of rock music is important.

On that note, something like Xenakis appeals to a lot of people on this board because, on the surface, it seems very similar to a lot of white noise-type stuff. I've been writing something with a mate recently about how Xenakis' most important contribution to music doesn't really occur in the sound produced (which would require astonishing hearing to seriously differentiate between a 'good' and a 'bad' recording, in terms of his tone-cloud stuff) but is mostly about the abstract, theoretical ideas of his composition. But yeah, I think Xenakis is doing something far too complex to be appreciated purely as the 'surface noise' (although, obviously, it's fine to appreciate it like that).

Tonight I'm seeing the Ensemble Inter-Contemporain (one of the best groups of specialists for contemporary music here in Paris) play 2 pieces by Scelsi, 2 pieces by Murail and 1 piece by Pintscher.

I'm kinda excited.

Ooh. Which Murail? I got a Pintscher CD recently, he's really quite the orchestrator.

L'esprit des dunes and Serendib

speaking of Varése here are recordings from 57 in ny with Varése conducting a bunch of jazz folks ((Art Farmer (trumpet), Hal McKusik (clarinet, alto sax), Teo Macero (tenor sax), Eddie Bert (trombone), Frank Rehak (trombone), Don Butterfield (tuba), Hall Overton (piano), Charlie Mingus (bass), Ed Shaughnessy (drums), probably John La Porta (alto sax)... We don't know who is on vibes...)) while they freely improvise.

some interesting stuff. this is possibly the beginning of this sort of approach. butch morris being another to do a similar thing but in the 70s and 80s.

http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2009/0...zmen-mp3s.html

i downloaded some schnittke soundtrack and concerti. i really love him.
i like varese, i need to listen to him a bit more. although i think that, for sonorists, i tend to like ligeti the best.

Precisely my feeling. Between Parmegiani and Ligeti, there's no exceptional need for Varése.