Well, someone was clearly full of shit some time ago.

Resurrecting this thread to point out that I was full of shit.

And also in the hope of coaxing Noumenal back.

And also because I wanted to continue to espouse the virtues of Schnittke, whose 10 symphonies I got for Christmas and I CANNOT STOP TELLING PEOPLE HOW GREAT THEY ARE.

Also, Helmut Lachenmann.
Also, Giacanto Scelsi.
Also, Jakob Ullmann.
Also, Tristan Murail.
Also, Gerard Grisey.
Also, Mozart's quartets clearly shit on Bartok's.

i recently bought all of bartoks quartets.
somebody gave me steve reich remixed for my B-day but i switched it for Arvo Part's Misere-Festina Lenta-sarah was ninety years old, on ECMi
i also got Parsifal and Meistersinger on DVD.

i just finished the history of music 20th century course and it turned me on to some great music by lutoslawski, berio and a few others that i wasnty that familiar with.
Glice, i have been listening a bit to scnittke's 1st and 4th (the 4th i need for my music class) any specific recordings preferred for scnittke?

I'd say anything with Kremer. Not just because, y'know, it's Kremer but because I think he's just cold enough to play it well without quite being analytical like, say, Arditti.

The version of the 4th I have is the Stockholm Sinfonietta.

I would seriously avoid the Kronos quartet's recording of the quartets - it's great, because it's Schnittke, but it really felt very by-numbers to me.

Berio's someone I've never really got the hang of - what would you recommend of his? Lutoslawski is someone I've always enjoyed but have only picked up the Naxos cello concerto by him. I don't know what those Russians put in the water, but fair play to them.

the berio that i heard was his sinfonia. the 3rd movement especially. if you are not familiar with it id check it out. the third movement is based on part of mahlers second symphony with all the strange sound collages of quotes from different pieces and places. and thanks i will try to look for some more schnittke symphonies ...

Oh, I have heard that. A while ago now. Didn't really do it for me, I don't tend to like collages or referencing other pieces (in spite of my liking Schnittke and Shosters). But I'll take another listen, see if things have changed.

holy shit, listening to schnittke's string quartets now, and so far my mind is being blown.

I saw the Arditti quartet doing his second. AMAZING.

Song in which every verse is filled with grief is beyond... just beyond.

I don't know if I agree with you about Mozart shitting on Bartok quartets.

First time I've heard of Schnittke is in this thread. Really digging this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKVhi-VbNqs. I have a feeling it's all I'm going to be listening to for the next month, as I'm sort of spent on yr usual punk/indie fare. I kind of wish more "alternative" musicians had EARS, yanno?

wow, the arditti are amazing.
is the sing in which every verse filled with grief the title of one of his quartets?

and yeah, i first started listening to schnittke because i studied him in a class and because of glice's recommendation. he is amazing.

at this moment i am going through mozarts string quintets. they are pretty great except that the ensemble is not that impressive.

The Ardittis also did a piece by Dusapin, who seems pretty lovelly to me.

Also, I've been listening to a bit of Gloria Coates of late, who's not the most 'radical' of composers, but quite good nonetheless.

Those of you who've enjoyed Schnittke may want to check out Allan Patterson's symphonies. Exquisite.

Glice, what do you think of Edgard Varèse ?

I've never really been terrifically impressed with any recordings I have. It takes quite a concentrative listen to get much out of it. Obviously, he's timbrally very acute, but I wonder if that isn't better illustrated by the spectralists on the acoustic side or musique concrete on the other. Also, I tend to think that Scelsi's music does nothing in a more interesting way.

I mean, Varése is important, and I can appreciate him on that level and see why, but it doesn't really get me overly excited (much like middle-period Schoenberg).

Interesting, I'm not too big of a fan either but I didn't know if I just wasn't trying hard enough.

I know a lot of people don't like this line of thinking, but part of the thing with classical music is that it's not necessarily a visceral, primal pleasure but more often 'academic' (in a loose sense). It took me ages to get the hang of R Strauss on an emotional level, but I was sat there for a while going 'but it's clearly very good'. I think with classical music - and a lot of 'art' music in general - it's kind of ok to not feel like something is 'beautiful' but to admire the construction, playing and so on in a cerebral sense.

I don't think this means that you need to have formal training in music theory (I certainly don't have that), and classical music isn't meant to be a museum piece, but a little bit of standing back from the visceral thrills of rock music is important.

On that note, something like Xenakis appeals to a lot of people on this board because, on the surface, it seems very similar to a lot of white noise-type stuff. I've been writing something with a mate recently about how Xenakis' most important contribution to music doesn't really occur in the sound produced (which would require astonishing hearing to seriously differentiate between a 'good' and a 'bad' recording, in terms of his tone-cloud stuff) but is mostly about the abstract, theoretical ideas of his composition. But yeah, I think Xenakis is doing something far too complex to be appreciated purely as the 'surface noise' (although, obviously, it's fine to appreciate it like that).

Tonight I'm seeing the Ensemble Inter-Contemporain (one of the best groups of specialists for contemporary music here in Paris) play 2 pieces by Scelsi, 2 pieces by Murail and 1 piece by Pintscher.

I'm kinda excited.

Ooh. Which Murail? I got a Pintscher CD recently, he's really quite the orchestrator.

L'esprit des dunes and Serendib

speaking of Varése here are recordings from 57 in ny with Varése conducting a bunch of jazz folks ((Art Farmer (trumpet), Hal McKusik (clarinet, alto sax), Teo Macero (tenor sax), Eddie Bert (trombone), Frank Rehak (trombone), Don Butterfield (tuba), Hall Overton (piano), Charlie Mingus (bass), Ed Shaughnessy (drums), probably John La Porta (alto sax)... We don't know who is on vibes...)) while they freely improvise.

some interesting stuff. this is possibly the beginning of this sort of approach. butch morris being another to do a similar thing but in the 70s and 80s.

http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2009/0...zmen-mp3s.html

i downloaded some schnittke soundtrack and concerti. i really love him.
i like varese, i need to listen to him a bit more. although i think that, for sonorists, i tend to like ligeti the best.

Precisely my feeling. Between Parmegiani and Ligeti, there's no exceptional need for Varése.

http://depositfiles.com/en/files/zp29qi8ll

This is Lachenmann's Gran Torso quartet available for download. The guy has also included the score. It's a genuinely amazing score, even if you don't read music it's worth looking at. I'm thinking of putting together a load of these sorts of scores that are aesthetically pleasing for a mate's amusement, may upload it here when I do so.

From this blog which has a lot of similar stuff (music + score). Well worth a gander, plus Chrome's translator seems to not be doing too bad a job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziQjykdLDVU

AMAZING.

would this be the right place to post Hans Zimmers Mombasa Live Performance (from the inception preimiere)?
cause the thread Ive opened for it, clearly failed to attract to anyone.

anyways:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0r0aDfW2UM

I am still stunned by it

class! I love tuned percussion, my eyes were opened to it for the first time watching 'young musicians of the year' one time, amazing stuff.


Is that noel gallagher on guitar? haha

hahaha no its johnny marr (the smiths)
I am glad that the collabo didnt turn out be the same old rock meets orchestra shit

It is pretty dire though - it all sounds like a massive synthesiser. Which would be interesting, if it weren't bog-standard 'dramatic' film music. [/bitch mood]

I totally get what you mean. and for me it could be even more sythesizer, haha
but what I really dig about the tune are the chord progressions. it moves me in a way I havent been moved in a long time. even if that sounds ridiculous
it sounds like you will have the fight of your life. I dont wanna hot the spot with german composers and how they sound "dramatic" hrhrhr

It's a really good soundtrack but I wouldn't say it stands up particularly well as a piece of music in its own right. When fused with the visuals of Inception it works really well; providing another layer of impact to what's going on on-screen. I can listen to it without the film because I've already had that fusion imprinted in my mind from when I did watch it. I'm not sure what I'd think about it otherwise, though.

There's a chord progression in there which is really amazing, and it always reminds me of (without being the same as) one that John Carpenter used in his soundtrack to Halloween. Not the main 'riff' but the chords played behind it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWTD-nXadaI

^^thanks for that link.
its funny cause somehow mombasa really reminded me of some carpenter work. but I couldnt nail it.




Ive asked myself too regarding this. and I came to the conclusion that mombasa is the only one that works without the movie in mind. like I mentioned in the mombasa thread before, the chord progression where dicaprio is running away, has stolen me attention for a few seconds from the movie, while being in the cinema.

Ive read some articles where they compare inception//the OST as the next Blade Runner.
and thats where I disagree. Inception was more succesful on Day one then BR in its whole lifespan I think. also the OST doesnt stand against Vangelis beautiful (pioneering) work at the beginning of the 80ies, imo.

I can see why people are comparing it with BR but I agree, they're very different, largely because Zimmer is a very different composer than Vangelis. The chord progression in Mombassa is awesome, I totally agree, but it definitely suggests some kind of visual in a way that Vangelis' stuff (whether OSTs or otherwise) often don't. In that sense, I think Zimmer creates the better soundtracks while Vangelis is perhaps the better all-round composer.

yeah I can see the parallels too. zimmer "quoted" the BR signature Bras/Synth sound on at least one tune. and the overall feel is in general pretty laid back. the work I know from zimmer is overall way more percussion, and I agree thats one of the reasons why he is such a good visual composer, cause he is really good at creating tension with that.

all in all I couldnt agree more on your post

I think my favourite Vangelis soundtrack is Chariots of Fire, especially the piece he composed for this scene. It's very simple and only comes in about half-way through, but it perfectly compliments the visuals, while at the same time somehow capturing the religious motivations of the character it's soundtracking. Brilliant!

full track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2un1I162dw

My favourite non-OST Vangelis piece is this though, at least from about a minute in. I remember hearing it as the sun came up during a rave, E'd off my face. One of the greatest musical moments of my entire life.

oh yes, china is brilliant in its whole.
I wish I could have experienced it when it was released. must have been mind bending.

I know the OST to chariots of fire, but I never saw the movie. its high on my list to do so in the near future, even if its just to see the OST in action.

damn I am totally hooked on chung kuo, for now.
the main theme is DANG!

Yeah, you can't argue with Chung Kuo. I heard it at that rave quite a bit after it first came out but it was the first time I'd actually heard it. Either way, brilliant.

You really should see CoF. It get's a bit of stick from a lot of people but parts of it just blow me away and the overall fusion of sound and image that runs throughout it, really is quite amazing.

yes I will do. Ive seen the intro on youtube at the very moment featuring THE chariots of Fire song and it looked and sounded perfect. when the film goes this way I will definately enjoy it.

I found a onine copy of antarctica, looking forward to see it on a train ride hopefully today

If I ever get my copy back from my ex-housemate, I'll up it for you.

Luca Franscesconi, a young Italian composer, is doing it for me at the moment. He's a bit post-Nono but not entirely dry. Good times.

I love some Russian composers. Mussorgsky is my favorite, but I like also lot Rimsky-Korsakov and Tschaikovsky. Of course Finnish Sibelius is great. About the other classical composers I listen Beethoven (third and ninth symphony is just great) and Brahms. I have few other classical works as Vivaldi´s Four seasons, some Mozart and some Shubert. Holst Planets are just great, but does it belongs into new art music?

Holst's planets if much more in the grand symphonic/ tone poem tradition of late romantic, I'd say (if there is a distinction to be made). He's certainly not the measure of R Strauss. I got his Electra recently, fucking phenomenal work that is.

I'm absolutely obsessed with Schnittke's fourth violin concerto right now. Specifically the Kremer recording on Elektra. Absolutely unbelievably good. The Russians are indeed fucking badass.