the Beatles are pop in book.

in fact, any POPular music can be considered Pop can't it?

I was using Pop as an umbrella term that covered RnR though. Chuck Berry's riffs were a part of RnR but you can't deny that they also helped provide the foundations for pop music as it came to be known. And certainly The Ramones' (well Joey's anyway) infatuation with Girl Groups is far too broad to be contained within the term RnR.

The pop values that punk endorsed (elevation of the single and a turn towards a youth audience) were specifically those that'd been rejected by the more adult-oriented-album promoted by Prog and Classic Rock. Of course there are more contradictions and exceptions to this than there are pure examples of it (probably). All I'm saying is that in many ways the original Punk movement was far more sympathetic to pop than a lot of the bands currently being described as Pop Punk, who take every opportunity they can to distance themselves from any kind of pop associations.

I like early Bad Religion too (the 80-85 record).
But then they split, and later reform, and every band who split and reform suck, as far as I know.
(edit: except The Feelies, Time For A Witness is far better than Crazy Rythms)

all of saves the day's catalogue. pop punk perfection. and the ataris.

please never use this word

for real.

prog was about cleaning up rock n roll and trying to make it respectable in a middle class kind of way, pop to my mind is studio based music that companies turn out to make money, rock n roll is small groups with electrified instruments who all start out playing dingey clubs to no audience.

I didn't even realise that I had. I do feel genuinely ashamed. genuinely. ashamed.

rock n roll was all about singles up until the late 60s/early 70s, but i don't think a song belongs more or less to a particular style of music based on the format it is released on?
And I would say pop predates rock n roll, and pop absorbed some influence from rock n roll (for financial reasons) so as to stay relevant (i.e. lucrative) after the initial rock n roll craze in the 50s.

Soooo..

How about the Only Ones?

Dead Milkmen rule.

Circle Jerks- have you seen Circa '82? Usually I don't watch porn for 5-10 minutes at a time, but I sort of want to see it.

probably way too thrash, but there you go.

and they've reformed..

http://www.myspace.com/ukthestupids

Not pop, ska punk.

A few of my faves:
Milo Goes to College
the first 2 AFI albums
Singles Going Steady
Um...the Adicts first album? Can't remember. I like the Adicts.

Not exactly my favorite genre, but there are some gems out there.

The first two Ramones albums (I could have said the first eight, but those two are a cut above any other pop punk records at all)
Damned Damned Damned
Buzzcocks - 1st 3 albums are pop perfection, amazing how Shelley kept it up after Devoto left
Fastbacks - Play Five of Their Favorites; ...And His Orchestra
Descendants - Milo Goes to College
Dictators - Go Girl Crazy (yeah, I know it's pop punk metal, but whatever, it's moronic genius)
The Incredible Shrinking Dickies
Tubeway Army - Replicas

There are other groups who did a remarkable single or two (The Only Ones come immediately to mind where "Another Girl Another Planet" rules all over the rest of the album), but those are the only classic albums I can think of that rule from beginning to end.

every descendents album (all sucks except for one album)
screeching weasel
old green day
rancid isn't pop punk
saves the day isn't pop punk
bad religion isn't pop punk
pinhead gunpowder
astrid oto
the queers
PANSY DIVISION