Probably, but just sing the word "anticipation" a few times and you get the picture.

Just one more thing…

I’ve been seemingly “lurking” and taking a long time to respond to messages (that’s right, respond, i’m getting them in my inbox and then writing back) because I’m AT WORK.

I’m not really angry or defensive…nor am i acting that way....you all are putting me in that role. I simply asked a question and then stated an opinion that wasn’t being represented. Seems like everybody is just having a fun time berating me. And there is no one thing that I could probably say to end that…even temporarily leaving the thread to do a work-related assignment didn’t do the trick…I’m glad that I’m at least providing some people amusement? It's kinda banal to send somebody inbox messages and then post their replies so that people will laugh, but whatever, I expected nothing less from people on a forum.


If you don’t like Girls Rock camps, then don’t enroll yr children. If you don’t like feminism, then don’t pay attention. If riot grrrls annoy you, don’t listen to their music. I always assumed that those were relatively simple things to grasp….

I am a feminist for a whole bunch of reasons. I think of SY as being a feminist band. But that’s not why I listen to them. And if you don't agree, fine. I’m not here to lecture anybody. I haven’t been doing any femi-nazi lecturing. I stated an opinion about why I liked a silly lil show. And if that annoys you, then skip ahead to the next thread rather than attack the sender...or attack the sender, whatever, it doesn't matter, as you all said, it's a silly lil forum.

However, I'm ready for this to end.

here, you seem to have a vision problem

She does seem pretty chill honestly. I mean, she doesn't seem to be letting it go, but everyone jumped on her as a psycho radical feminazi lesbo dyke butch bulldyke dyke dyke and I didn't really get that vibe from her. I don't agree with a lot of radical feminism, but I think feminism is a good thing and furthermore, I think a lot of people attack self-professed feminists because they think it validates their own feminism, which is a sick side affect of republican's ability to turn a positive word into a negative.

It was all a joke. Hence my re-re-reposting of internet is not srs bsns.

1. yeah, it's all the republicans fault. just like everything else.

dumbass.

2. i am not a feminist. i call bullshit when i see it.

3. "she does seem pretty chill" .....lol

1. Bitch, there's plenty to blame democrats for as well, but that's sure as fuck not one of the things.

2. are you talking to me with this? because I never fucking said I'm not a feminist

3. The least chill person in this discussion is you. You're being a typical hysterical woman. Can't fucking stop being emotional and menstruating everywhere.

This was actually a pretty intersting thread until you fucked it up by being retardedly over emotional

yeah i'm crying right now. :rolleyes:



can you read? i said that i am not a feminist, therefore i am not trying to "validate my own feminism", fuckass



ps calm down

I'm calm baby I'm calm. If anyone needs to calm down it's you.

You say you're not a feminist, but I know you are. The definition of feminism is that you believe in equal rights for men and women. Therefore if you believe that, you are a feminist whether you want to admit it or not. If you don't believe that, then get the fuck out. And yeah I can read, you just can't write.

ok here's something we can all agree on then: you're a cunt

oh, burnnnn!!!!


you'll still need this though

as if.


i got a foggy notion but no calamine lotion.

$0.01: Much like the way to truly equalize blacks and whites is to stop bellyaching about the past and not be so surprised when an African American actually accomplishes something, girls/women don't need the world watered down for them. Wow, a girl/woman playing guitar! Big whoop. She's a human being, all of whom are able to express themselves if they so desire.

$0.01: Western civilization is male-dominated only on the surface. Where do you think the expression,"Behind every successful man is a woman", came from? Many guys do the things they do because they want to impress the girls, even if it's on a subconcious level.

either that or we have to do it for you.

tl;dr

Read Judith Butler, feminist.

I don't think that feminism has anything to do with bellyaching. Feminists sometimes refer to the past because it's so dangerous to forget completely. History repeats itself. It's all too easy to shove things aside and say that we are colorblind/gender-blind etc. However problems still occur. My friends are still rape victims. Domestic violence still kills. Women are being trafficked to work as sex slaves at astounding rates. etc. etc.

Early on this thread I referred to myself as being a radical feminist and that seemed to get everybody all heated up. Radical feminism is, to me, a personal and political philosophy in which I attempt to engage with the root causes of these situations. It's about a lot more than loving your body fat and masturbating with a daisy guitar and wearing pink barrettes. To me, radical feminism is about the why?

In my opinion, Girls Rock camp helps girls at a time where they are being bombarded with negative images. It provides them with a positive way to channel things. It helps them find their voice. Also, it provides access to instruments for those who might otherwise not be able to have it. It's important to remember that parents and girls enroll willingly into the program. Nobody is forced to do it!

People should be allowed to have their own definitions of feminism. It's dangerous when you try to create a singular one because everybody has their own experiences. Let people define and explore it for themselves, if that's what they want to do. So Satan, if you don't identify that way...fine. I don't agree with you, but you are also an adult (i'm assuming) capable of making your own decisions. Right?


I really hope that I don't get more shit for "lecturing" or not being "chill" etc. etc. I really don't appreciate that. And it doesn't reflect very well on this board, the offical sonic youth message boards. I've been reading a lot of other people's personal philosophies about everything on this board. And I don't see why my opinions have turned me into the board cunt over every other individual. So yeah, please don't post another "shut up" thing because i have a right to engage in a conversation. Plus, i think it's a pretty interesting one. Or at least it was before it became a giant shit fest.

wow, you managed to hold out for 5hrs before you got sucked back in.


i'm so proud of you.

I have a job and did a presentation. Real world stuff. My life doesn't center around a message board forum. I don't understand why you or others have been getting a kick out of berating a stranger.

this thread is going to be a "my fagina is better than your kenis soap-opera"

notice that it spiked right around 1990....

Yeah, I'm glad that rape rates are lower. How could I not be? Aren't you? That still doesn't mean that they are low. Or that rape camps no longer exist. Rape is still a mass phenomenon. I'll continue to talk and care about it.

Quit blowing your vag juice everywhere you should be pregnant by now anyway

yeah, but aren't you also from an ultra-privileged background?

THANK YOU! I was also trying to articulate this point. Lots of the girls who these camps cater towards don't have music programs in their schools. Their parents can't afford to buy them instruments or give them instructions. Some of the girls who my partner coached in the camp almost cried when she mentioned that their grandparents might have to pay $10 to get into the show....

You just got repped!

i think girls rock sounds like a good idea, i don't know why everyone else is being such a dick about it. as if no musicians they like ever took lessons or even studied their instrument to an advanced level, because if taking no lessons was the best way for lydia lunch to learn to play then it's the best way for everyone.... especially if they don't want to sound like no wave. although obviously most 9 year olds want to start a teenage jesus & the jerks cover band.
seriously the people who are against this camp are coming up with the dumbest arguments and then posting links to courntney love as if that proves something.... it's kind of embarrasing to read.

That's the one thing I thought was good about it. I think it's really important to give people that don't have much money a chance.


After all the bullshit I'm pretty embarrassed to still say it, but what I was trying to say is, there's nothing wrong with getting lessons, I just don't think you can get lessons on how to be original and how to be yourself and if you need them, you'll never learn it. But ... fuck it

yeah, you can't teach people how to be original but the people who do have their own ideas will be better equipped to execute those ideas if they've learned some skills, i mean listen to Can or Kraftwerk, those bands were both made up of music students, but neither band really sounds much like anything that came before them and if both groups hadn't had that background there's no way they could have pulled off what they did. Infact pretty much all krautrock bands had amazing chops and i'm willing to bet that most if not all of them took lessons to a notable degree.

this is complete deluded bullshit

NO.

ok, firstly this thread is discussing children circa 9 years old, how many of them are even aware of pitchfork, let alone stuff that is beyond it?
secondly, if women have always played an integral part in performing rock music (as your statement implies) then please name 100 female musicians (you don't even have to like them, just name them) to put out a rock n roll record between 1955 and 1975, and please tell me what instrument they played on that record?
and thirdly, please tell me of which areas of rock music today does the male to female ratio between performers match those of the audience?

here's 20 off the top of my not taking you seriously, research your own criteria

Catherine Ribeiro
Briggite Fontaine
Mama Bea Tekielski
Wanda Jackson
Janis Martin
Siouxsie's debut misses your arbitrary parameters by three years
Nico
Dara Puspita
The Pearl Sisters
Delta 5
The Ronnettes
The Crystals
The Shangri-Las
Little Peggy March
The Shirelles
NINA SIMONE WAS PRETTY FUCKING PUNK
Rosa Yemen
Niagara of Destroy All Monsters
Suburban Lawns were ahead of the game
Teenage Jesus & the Jerks
Pierrot Lunaire

Hey, you forgot the Runaways...

Of course it doesn't mean that. I never implied such a statement either. That doesn't make up for the fact it still being a good thing to offer lessons to somebody who might not be able to afford it. Socio-economic class doesn't automatically imply that somebody has less resources, it just means that there may be a higher probability.


And about women in rock - yes, there are a lot of women in rock. However, they are still very much overshadowed by men. And, as I've stated before, most women in rock are either back up musicians or pure sex objects. This is about providing an alternative...albeit a week long alternative.

my parameters weren't arbitrary, the point i'm making is that prior to punk (i.e. 1976, and the first time their was any kind of direct challenge to the male domination of rock n roll) to see a woman playing an instrument in a band was very rare, it is still not the case that the number of women playing in rock bands is in equal proportion to the number of women who make up the audience of rock music.
i don't need to research this, but you clearly do as firstly a good deal of the bands you mentioned are post '76, secondly a good deal of them aren't rock n roll (and please explain what nina simone has to do with punk?), and the majority that remain are singers, i.e. what was then considered the only acceptable place for a woman in a band, i.e. the men were in charge of everything else.
and lastly, most of those are so obscure that they are irrelevant to anyone but internet nerds and serious record collectors, oh, and 9 year olds going to summer camp.

please, follow through and make the point that kids from poor backgrounds have the same opportunities in life as those from wealthy families.

What's Nina Simone got to do with punk? How would I know, I'm just talking shit. "Obscure" bands are relevant to anyone who listens to their diluted influence in "popular" bands.

But I concede the argument. The spirit and themes of rock are very relevant to underprivileged 9 year olds. I remember hearing Courtney Love when I was a 9 year old girl, I remember thinking "what's my vagina for?"