not really revolutionary. Weezer did that shit w/ Maladroit back in 2001 or whatever. They worked on the album publicly (via their official msg board) and asked for fan feedback every step of the way - revised tracks based on feedback - and THEN guess what they did? They delivered a FINISHED album.

Know what they didn't do? They didn't charge a monthly subscription fee while they were still "tweaking" things.

I know you think it's baffling that some of us don't want to hear (or pay for) an unfinished album. But like I've said in the past, I didn't hear the GOOD Friday demos for MBDTF until that album was already released at retail either.

I think all of this is baffling dude. I'm pissed at Kanye one minute, thinking "what the hell man?", then I listen to the album and I think, "whatever's going on, whatever might or might not happen, this thing is just dope as fuck" ... Then I want to talk to my friends about it. Then I get pissed because nobody (aside from complete strangers on Twitter and tumblr and a few estranged Facebook friends) is talking to me about it!!

So don't mistakenly assume that I'm against you here bro. I'm pretty goddamn bewildered all around.

And I DEFINITELY want the album to be released. Just a few conclusive words from Kanye about what the fuck his actual plans are for this album and future albums would go along way to settling my stomach and calming my nerves.

I've always been a stickler for the official. I don't read fan fiction, I don't download lane ass DJ mixtapes that aren't backed by the artist, I don't have a very big collection of bootlegs anymore and those I do have I keep in a separate area from my catalogued and organized albums. I hate the fact that the next Gane of Thrones season is going to include shit that isn't in the books! Because what the fuck is the point?! I hate it when anime shows (ahem, Bleach) contain entire seasons of "anime only" filler that isn't based on the manga when the author is in between volumes, allowing the storyline to veer off into stupid boring places that the manga' author has nothing to do with. I dont read unauthorized biographies unless there's a widely accepted and damn good reason for doing so that is accepted by the literary community at large (important information that the artist's estate doesn't want to release because it would lead to bad pr)... And I CERTAINLY would never do something like this:



(Ugh... right?)

I want the album to just be released – or at least for this what if shit to stop – as much or more than anyone.

This is kinda dope though:



Seriously, go to tumblr and just type in the life of Pablo. A lot of people have done a lot of cool things with it. Writing, graphic design, concept art, and a shit ton of "if young metro don't trust you ima shoot" memes, most of which are stupid as hell.

So, even though I love the album as it is, I would really like it if a few things were cut, and a few other small alterations were made. Now. Small alterations are being made, but not where I want them to be made. It's nice to have Vic and Sia back on "Wolves," I guess, but I'd already made my peace with the track version on the album. And he did a disservice to "Famous" by changing one of the lyrics, even if he new one makes more sense contextually, it's less appealing in terms of flow.

I just breezed through a Pitchfork article on this (they have a new website by the way, and it's really awful! Like, totally non-intuitive. Not even in a "more mobile friendly" kind of way.l. But I digress...) and the piece really hit at the heart of the matter. When is an album done? Who gets the say? Is it really best for an artist to have complete control over everything? Once a project is released, what's the real point of changing it? In other words: WHAT THE FUCK AND WHY?

The album got great reviews, which is surprising. Because I think "I love Kanye" has zero business being on there. Same for "facts"... and "Freestyle 4" has its moments but it would be fine as a b-side. I'm definitely ready for the bulkshit to be over, because he's not going to do what he should do (which would be to take the 10 or so fully realized, badass songs on the album, and release them as the album, and cut all the fat away because it prevents the album from being as good as its best moments), and I fear he's just going to continue to add more and more and turn this into something that actually does pose a significant threat to his career after all.

Here's the article:
http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/1059-k...oes-it-matter/

yeah the new pfork site is just terrible. Not only is the layout crap, but I'm also getting 500 errors and missing content pretty consistently.

Honestly the last thing I want Kanye to do is what the fans want from him.

Kanye has just been fucking with you all now, trying to manufacture hype and sex appeal by dragging all this out. Trying to replicate the sincere and spontaenous street buzz that followed leaks in the late 90s and early 2000s..

I may be being hyper critical here, but i more or less agree with noisereductions on this.. just release the fucking album already!

Even I agree with that. RELEASE THE GODDAMN ALBUM! Do what you need to do (which, hopefully, is to remove the goddamn skits and non-songs), but just PUT SOMETHING OUT!

I've got a stack of Kanye CD's and a stack of vinyl, and the CD's are missing nothing! I've even got an import of Late Orchestration now! So fucking LET ME GIVE YOU MONEY FOR YOUR ALBUM!!

Then I guess you're on board with pretty much all of this. Which is strange, bevause once you decided you didn't like the album, you kinda turned into a different presence on here. By not doing what you and I want him to do, he's pushed you away more than just about anyone else I can think of. :confused:

This is what I'm going to need to see happen in order for me to be 100% happy with the album:

New tracklist:
Ultralight Beam
Father Stretch my Hands 1, FSMH 2
Famous
Feedback
Highlights (ft. Madonna)
All Day (final Fucking studio version!)
FML
Waves (feat. Chance the Rapper)
Real Friends
NMPILA
Wolves
Fade
30 Hours

(Deluxe edition with Freestyle 4, Young Thug's version of Highlights, Facts EXPLOCITLY labeled as bonus tracks would be tolerable)

No more fucking with it.
Official cd, releases (digital only would be acceptable as long as one could actually purchase it, but CD/LP would be superior and better all around)

Move the fuck on.

Otherwise, I'm gonna have some kind of beef. It will probably be my album of the year no matter what, but I won't call it perfect until it is.

Are you really asking why I'm so "obsessed" with this?

Maybe I haven't been super clear about this, but I kinda like Kanye West. ;)

Seriously though, I've been waiting for this album for years. I thought it might never happen. I thought about it constantly. If he'd just dropped the album on the 11th (no, wait, the 14th, no wait..) of February, I would have been fine. I love the record. I really do. But the fact that he's drawing this out and making stupid changes and STILL not confronting the only thing j really care about, which is the fact that the album isn't OUT... It just feels like a slap in the face to his most reliable and loyal fans.

Cause that's really what this is about. All I want is new Kanye music. If the album isn't perfect, I'll still be a fan and I'll still love the record. Who is he trying to fuck over here? Because the people who aren't invested in Ye will simply download the album and say fuck it. They won't keep their Tidal subscriptions going, or lose any sleep about basically being made to download the album just so they can listen to it with freedom. He's only going to let down the people who love his music most.

But again I'm all over the place on this. Ask me again tomorrow ;)

Totally worth owning to me. Not sure what your deal is if you can't get behind ULB and Real Friends and Famous and blah blah blah. Great fucking songs.

And Kanye's comment about the "white" media actually pissed me off. As though there are only white writers at Rolling Stone, Pitchfork, Spin and the fucking New York Times. That was a stupid thing to say.

No I think he's trying to satisfy the masses, the younger generation of hip hop listeners in particular with this album. Even if I didn't love Yeezus I would still respect it. But let me shut up.

Kendrick battling british kids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM550Jks57g

This just made my day. :)

Well, first off I don't want you to shut up, I very much want you to say MORE about all of this. (Unless it's just, y'know, "TLOP is so bad" over and over again, which wouldn't help my morale much at the moment, and which I kinda don't entirely believe since I know damn well how many of the songs you like ;) ) but I definitely want to hear more from you.

Second, what do you mean "even if (you) didn't love Yeezus..." ?? I'm confused. Shouldn't this be, like, "even if I did like TLOP" or something? Who's talking about Yeezus?

(Side note: Yeezus is so great! Woke up with the line "Come on homie what happen'? You niggas ain't breathing you gaspin'!" just running through my head... What a great line. What a great song. What a great album. :) )

Finally, I don't think he's trying to appeal to anyone here. I don't think there's any substantial contingent of the hip-hop community who exclusively listens to music through Tidal. In fact, there are only about 3 million subscribers!!! Yeah, that's way up from the number of subscribers pre-TLOP (1 mill) but I don't think anyone anywhere is thinking "yes, this is exactly how I wanted this album to be released! Perfect!" unless it's fucking Dr. Doom or Lex Luthor or The Brain or someone else hell bent on destruction and chaos.

But I maintain that several of the album's songs are top self Kanye. Like, the best all around songs he's dropped since MBDTF. Those are Real Friends and No More Parties in LA and FML and Ultralight Beam. "Famous" is excellent but I can understand how it might be kind of hard to love a song like "Famous" .... (See what I did there?) for folks who don't like the album as a whole.

"happened" and "gasping" do not rhyme

True. But it's rap, and it's Kanye, so it's really "what happen?" / "you gaspin'"

A half rhyme all the same, but having listened to hip-hop since 1993, and in recent years often doing so exclusively, I can tell you with confidence that there are more half and quarter rhymes than "true" rhymes. It's not a Kanye thing, and it's not a lyricism issue. It's a byproduct of the phonetic nature of the genre. Timbre, pronunciation, regional accent embellishments and general syllabic fucking around are part of what make rap what it is.

Besides, quarter and half rhymes weren't invented by Brooklyn emcees. Syllabic and phonetic abstraction and experimentation have been part of the lyrical and poetic traditions for centuries.

Love you Rob, but your point is about as useful in this context as a lecture to Thurston and Lee about how to "properly" play chords would have been in 1985.

If you were to tell Bob Dylan that "medicine" and "government" didn't rhyme, do you think he'd do anything other than stare at you blankly as though you were the world's biggest idiot?

I'm not saying you are an idiot.
Not at all. Far from it, in fact. But ... come on, man.

Sorry Sev, but I'm really tired of talking about TLOP at this point and feel like it brings up nothing but negative vibes from my part. I'll just say the FML outro is incredible and Turbo Grafx 16 ("on some super nerd vibes," said Kanye) sounds very intriguing so now I'm looking forward to that instead.

yo even Emily Dickenson was up on slant rhymes.

I still hate sloppy rhyming.

Slick Rick and Rakim are roilling over in their graves everytime they hear shit like this....

;)

haha! I still dig on the tunes, I just hate the fucking lazy rhymes, people pretending to freestyle shit that they pre-wrote and have practiced in front of a mirror for days. I hate that sit!!!!!!!

But no one cares as long as the track is bangin'.

and fuck Bob Dylan too. Boring ass motherfucker....ha!!!!

:( oh well. Fair enough I guess. I don't feel great about Turbo Graphx 16, or "album number three" for some reason. I don't feel like there's any way they're going to actually happen. I doubt the TLOP thing will be resolved by the end of 2016. Kanye's not super into doing what he says he's going to do.

Also, I think releasing multiple albums in a year can be cool if done properly. But very few people do it properly. Rick Ross has all but vanished from my world after the string of mediocre albums he's released in the past 2 years. And even Ghostface Killah has gotten on my nerves by dropping... What was it, three albums between November of 2014 and May of 2015? The albums were fine but there's a feeling of desperation and cheapness that comes with that kind of mass production of "product" especially when each album sounds more or less exactly like the last.

when you are an MC, your only "talent" is your rhyme skils, and your delivery.

to have it be ONLY about delivery? It cheapens the shit.

and fuck emily dickinson too. boring ass bat.

Of course people practice their freestyle lines. Battle rappers rehearse constantly, I'm sure, planning certain lines for certain opponents and memorizing encyclopedias of witty retorts to insults. But I've been to a few rap battles, and if the audience notices that you use the same line twice, they give you hell for it. They also seem to have a sense about whether or not something has been rehearsed.... Again I'm sure most of it has, but people can tell when you're reciting vs. improvising.

And I do think it's possible to just get really really good at improvisational rapping. It's possible to learn how to improvise with instruments. And if you use your voice and words as your instrument, I think that certain steps can be taken to legitimately become really goddamn good at freestyling. It probably requires an almost constant effort to to expand one's vocabulary, to learn new words and new slang, to play with pronunciation and practice new flows and deliveries. But I think it's possible.

if they practice it then it is not freestyle. To me hip hop is purely about beat and lyric, nothing else, and when I can tell that they spent 2 weeks on a beat and 20 minutes on the lyrics I hate it. It takes a REALLY good beat to make me ignore the shit lyrics.

freestyle to well-crafted rhymes to me is like playing HORSE as compared to a game of one-on-one. I do not want to pay to watch someone play HORSE

Chuck D used to tell people who asked him how to be a better MC that they needed to read and learn as much as possible, for you can only put out through your mouth what you put into your brain. Sadly, education and learning are not important in pop music or in much of today's pop-hip-hop.

(there have been linguistics studies done that compare the word usage in current songs to previous decades, and they show that most songs on today's radio use the vocabulary of a 7th grader. Most songs on radio 30-40 years ago used the vocabulary of a 11th grader...)

Well, not to go too far with it, but I feel like the era of the "MC"/"emcee" is kind of over. Even the best technical rappers (Kendrick) have talents beyond delivery and rhyming. Kanye is probably less about lyrics than anything else. He's not an "mc" -- not in the way you're using the word.

Even folks like Drake are showing that they are more than just verbal/vocal performers. Drake has a strong sense of aesthetic and style that are more impressive than any of his lyrics (most of which really really sucked prior to If You're Readig This... and involved line after line of the same number of syllables, each ending with an "Ayy" or a **"nigga!"). Indeed he's more about building a brand and bringing an almost managerial talent acquisition method to his music than he is about anythjng else.

Very few rappers are just rappers. That's my point. The ones who are don't tend to stick around long. Learning production and curation and taking artistic control are necessary now, because kids on the street are doing it and getting noticed, so there's pressure on the bigger artists to take on multiple roles.

(** remember "Tuscan Leather"? "I can go on this beat for an hour NIGGA" ... Did he even do any actual rapping in that song? That line was hard to swallow the first time I heard it. I was thinking, "nobody's asking for an hour, but it would be nice if you could make it through one song.")

Drake doesn't write many of his rhymes lately nor does he make many of his beats. In fact, almost no rapers nowadays make their own beats.

It is not as specialized as rock n roll was back when the record labels controlled everything and every aspect of recording. which leads to a lot of shit that sounds exactly the same.....

Maybe this is why hip hop shows suck ass?? because the rappers have no actual performance talent at all, which is what being an MC (move the crowd) is all about??????????

Like Fetty. I dig his inconsequential tunes. I enjoy his whole schtick. However, he is a guy who has been "rapping" (whatever that means nowadays) for only 2 years, never did any kind of performances to earn dues, never had to develop a stage persona to present his music, and so his concerts suck mad shit. Same with a guy like Post Malone who is just some rich white kid whose parents let him do whatever he wants and so, when he got tired of being in metal bands and shit like that decided to do hip hop, and scored a massive hit with a lucky one-shot. I love that white iverson song, and I like that a noob can make such a cool track, but it does not go further than that.
He wil not be rapping in a year, and likely neither will Fetty.

I never said Drake did any of his own beats. He's got a crew for that shit, and shares folks like Zaytoven with Future and everybody else. (Part of why I love Kanye and Kendrick, neither is really part of this... yeah, Kendrick gets Dre to do some production, and Ye will use Swizz Beats and a few others, but they don't fall into the "producer of the moment" thing.)

I wansn't even referring to lyrics with Drake. But the man has a brand. He's a great music capitalist. He cosigns folks like partynextdoor and ILoveMakonnen, reaps the benefits of appearing on their singles, and then moves the fuck on leaving the world to think he's got all this good will for aspiring artists. I'm not saying this is good, because it's not, but he's becoming sort of a cultural curator. Following in Ye's footsteps with a lot of it, but doing so with generally shitty material. OVO music and the whole "The 6" thing, they're just tools to further Drake's career. He's great at getting other people to do his work. Which is why I referred to him as "managerial" ... Ultimately I kind of hate the guy even if I like some of his albums.

he is a product, but at least he seems to have a good ear. I dig his more recent stuff and do not really like his early shit (Drake)

So there's going to be a TLOP pop-up shop tomorrow through Sunday in NYC



Anyone in the area want to do me a solid and stop by, see if they have TLOP CD's or vinyl, and pick one up for me if so? Will pay you for your time. And obviously for the CD if you get one.

If no albums are available I require the purchase of one bullshit pop-up shop only item to prove that you went before I pay you. Bastards.

Been listening to a lot of Prince, Marvin and Stevie lately. Not so much hip hop..

http://pitchfork.com/news/64234-a-lo...o-pop-up-shop/

So that pop-up shop is just a bunch of clothes. Sorry, Sev.

That's what's up. :) Legends.

Dude Prince is a fixture for me. Sign O the times is one of those "with me everywhere I go" albums. You dig Mavis Staples at all?

Got my physical copy of untitled unmastered. though. :D

That's what's up! Sign O is definitely his best, the one I feel has aged the best and has pretty much everything that's great about Prince.

1999 is one of my favorite albums, not only by Prince but of the 80's, period.. it also makes me laugh because it has those Fisher-Price keyboard sounds. :D But somehow it works. Just a super funky album.

Some of Purple Rain (well, looking at the tracklist again now, maybe just the first couple of tracks) hasn't aged that well either, LOL. Surprisingly there are other Prince albums I prefer, though I still love it.

Been listening Parade a lot as well. It's not as praised as his "Big 3" but deserves to be mentioned among them in my eyes, an overlooked masterpiece.

The B-sides our friend pepper green mentioned are all essential as well.

Honestly, all of his classics from the 80's could benefit from being remastered. I wish that will happen someday.

--

Don't know much about her, any recommendations will be welcomed. :)

I think Purple Rain is a 10/10 perfect album.

fav b-side is probably "Pink Cashmere" ...probably.