I'm not mad that it's on the service I don't have. I'm mad that a major artists thinks it's a good idea to pick WHICH store I HAVE TO buy his album at. When T Swift didn't put her albums on Spotify I wasn't "mad." She chose to leave it off one store. But I still could walk into Target or Best Buy or FYE or get it on Amazon or buy it from iTunes or... I had a choice. In this case I'm being told I need to subscribe to ONE certain service to hear the album. And I don't like the precedent. Yes, it's a free trial. But what happens when he releases the next one on Tidal only? Then what would your advice be to those that already did the free trial.

I know it seems silly in a way. But it's the principal. I don't want to be forced to sign up for a service (even if free trial) because Kanye says that's the only way he'll sell it to me. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Am I done with Kanye? Of course not! I love all his albums (that I've heard) and the moment he wants to give me a legal way to hear this one without forcing me into a subscription to a service I don't want, I'll hear it. If he doesn't want to make CD's, fine. But he can put it on Spotify, iTunes, Amazon streaming, etc and still not have CD's. It feels like a conflict of interest thing here though. Tidal is not doing great (at least in my anecdotal observations) and he's trying to push us into subscriptions by not leaving us a (legal) option. It's America, and he can do that. But I can "vote with my dollars" (again, I know the trial is free).

again, don't feel anything personal here. It's not about Kanye (for me). It's about Tidal and this gross feeling I have that I'm being bullied into a subscription I don't want. In my opinion this Tidal exclusive thing won't last anyway, so the bad taste will be washed from my mouth eventually.

Not "used to love." Still love his music. This fiasco is separate from that.

I am excited about Ferg. I love A$AP Mob. On the flip, I feel like every post I've made about them in the past month has fallen on deaf ears. I've posted a bunch of "Wavy Wednesday" singles and I don't think any of you even clicked the links. It is what it is. We all get in moods to hear what we want to hear. No disrespect.

fuck Tidal. I gots torrents. worldwide.

perhaps people just dont want to come to a sonic youth forum to talk about the most mainstream middle-of-the-road corporate-rapper around? (Kanyeeeee???)

I've been in a real 90's mood for weeks anyway. I haven't heard a lot of new albums yet that I'm interested in. I mean I haven't heard the new Kendrick yet even.

Hey man, I clicked the links! I always try to check things out when y'all recommend or post things. I'm totally down with an A$AP Mob album. That would be epic, and surreal and fucking incredible! I'm not as into Ferg as I am Rocky, but Trap Lord was excellent. If anything drops from any of those cats, I'm going to buy it.

All the Wavy Wednesdays business aside, I still can't bring myself to believe that an actual Mon album is in the works. Especially now that a be Ferg album is coming. They're not going to split their attention like that. But I'm so ready for those guys to follow through on their promise from freakin years ago and finally drop a group album. So ready.

Had anyone listened to Bas's Too High to Die yet? Anyone at all?

No offense, but folks who listen to Spnic Youth probably care more about music than anything else. There's enough Beatles talk here. People dig MJ and Prince, the Stones, etc. I think people are more about music being interesting and challenging than they do about silly rules about what punk fans should and shouldn't listen to.

Also, Kanye's been one of the most talked about artists here (even if I remove myself and my own comments from the equation) for years. I really don't think NR or louder is taking a stance against corporate music. I think they're just irked at Kanye.

I like what I like. I love plenty of "non-corporate" music (a vast majority of what's in my iPod and phone is probably "non-corporate" or "punk acceptable") but if I happen to like the music of an artist who sells shoes (Kanye, Kendrick) or has worked in fashion (uh... Kim Gordon?) then I'm not going to pretend I don't because the dictates of punk thos say I sholdn't.

Fuck putting music and or music fans in a box of any kind. People are astonished when I tell them I listen to Kanye, or Jay-Z, because I used to fancy myself quite a little punk snob. But I love confusing people who think that my Boredoms and SY love make me somehow predictable.

Dude you have to listen to the new Big Ups album. If you're in a '90s place, that record will be total ear candy. Not hip hop of course. Pretty bone crushing noise rock. But man, it takes me back. Sounds very alive.

I never even heard of Big Ups. Hmm.

Yeah the Ferg announcment pretty much means "no Mob album this year' in my mind. Which sucks. I'd be happy w/ just a compilation group album of all the singles they've dropped y'know?

But the Ferg album excites me. Trap Lord is such a grower. I love it now. And Ferg Forever was solid. "I gotta hundred dollar bill for every bump in your face!"

if you want to hear 90's sounds go listen to Chris Brown's track "Sex You Back to Sleep" or Bieber's track "Sorry". The 90's pop sounds are back, sad to say..... ;)

No no no, I only like '90s stuff that's not from the '90s if it's throwback boom bap or throwback math rock/post punk.

Those are the rules. ;)

Sorry to get all huffy about the Kanye thing. I just can't help but feel like I'm no longer in the hip hop café, but instead am in some alternate 1984 version of the café, in which something happened to make everyone love the new Kanye album except for the only two people whose opinions I give a shit about.

I thought I would feel vindicated by the constant outpouring of overwhelmingly positive reviews for this album. But nope. I just feel frustrated. I still love the shit out of the album (I really do, it's just amazing, more so with every listen) but even I am scratching my head at the reviews because it's like nobody is paying attention to the fact that FACTS is a big old turd.

But I guess I'd have to still say it's a 5/5 album. At least an 8.5/10 (whatever the fuck that means). Every song is a part of me now. I haven't listened to a new album this much since... umm... Yeezus. And I'm listening to this way more than I listened to Yeezus.

I don't mean to be unfair, but I really do miss talking Ye with you boys. Goddammit. I can't promise I won't have another temper tantrum about this at a later date.

Here's a kinda funny article about how TLOP had been illegally downloaded over 500,000 times (at the time this was written.... God knows how many now), and how it's entirely Kanye's fault.

http://www.fastcocreate.com/3056803/...s-kanyes-fault

I do wish we'd get some clarification about what the point of all this is. If I didn't believe he was never going to release the album, I wouldn't have downloaded it. And I'm keeping my Tidal subscription because I feel guilty about downloading it. But he needs to speak up and get specific about what exactly is on his Fucking mind. What's Turbo Grafx 16 going to be? Is it going to be a new album, or just TLOP revised yet again? Is it even his honest intention to release another album so soon? Why, with the massive download and subscription figures, is he continuing this charade? To push sales up? Is this a long con? WHAT THE FUCK?!

I've even tried to get in touch with his public relations departments. Not as a fanboy but as a journalist. I would hop on a plane to any location in the world at my own expense to interview him for 1 hour and try to get an idea of what the fuck is going on in that ludicrous melon of his.

Ask louder. I've been pushing a Kanye piece with my editors for weeks, and I even tried to recruit louder himself for a point counterpoint piece. I'm seriously ready to go Deepthroat on this shit. I'd quit my job and follow Kanye around for a year if I could get one single, thorough, comprehensive explanation for this nonsense. And I wouldn't let him run down the clock talking about his fashion line either. I'd rip into him like a shark.

Kanye if you're listening, I want to Frost/Nixon your ass.

Post of the year haha

Yeah Kendrick's awesome. We knew that before the Grammys though. I don't know that he necessarily "floats above all," but he is one of the few active rappers whose music actually excites me these days.

And Pusha... and Rocky... and Kanye goes without saying. TLOP doesn't feel empty to me. It feels extraordinary. Joey Bada$$ is dope too. And Chance. God I love Chancd.

But yeah, obviously Future and Thug are more or less empty shells. Sometimes Future's alright, but it's nothing I'll be bumpin five years from now.

Baha! Excellent timing.

Hey y'all.. Kendrick's releasing physical copies of untitled unmastered. at the end of the month. Autographed copies available on a limited first come, first serve basis. The autographed vinyl has apparently already sold out, but the CD's might still be available.



Yee-haw!

Kendrick gets it.

Oh, and also... uhh... fuck... well, I'll just say it:

Kanye West is STILL WORKING on TLOP mixes. :o

Here's an "article" from you-know-who

... Shrugs...

So maybe I was wrong to pressure NR to man up and listen to the goddamn album already, and maybe NR was right to stay away for fear that the "product" wasn't finished. Maybe.

Still no hope for a CD/vinyl release, as yet, which I can't say doesn't piss me off, but as I've said before, any new Kanye music is cause for celebration for me. I hope he comes around to at least putting the thing on iTunes and Spotify so people who are on the fence about the whole Tidal thing can, you know, hear the motherfucking album without breaking the motherfucking law.

Turbo Grafx 16 still allegedly happening, though I simply don't believe it will be out any time before 2019. Kanye has never, even at his prolific, released two albums in single calendar year, unless you count Watch the Throne, which dropped 9 months after MBDTF. I really, really, really doubt that this is going to be the one time a Kanye album drops without being pushed back three to five times.

Esperanza Spalding's new album is amazing! It's a big shift from her previous works, basically a fusion jazz / art rock album and it's totally great.

I have always felt that there is a reason beat-based music (dance music, techno/edm, much of hip hop) does not hold up as well as riff-based music (blues, rock, folk) over the years of repeated listens.

To me it is that dance music ( and I am being very general here) is meant to be felt immediately, to make your body move. It takes very exceptional songcraft to make a dance song into something that gets better and better with each listen. Of course you can dance to anything, but I am referring to the quick way in which dance music seems dated and old as compared to riff-based musics.

I love listening to Young Thug, Future, Rich Homie Quan, Chedda, etc. but I also am not avoiding the fact that after 10-15 listens the magic that initially got me into it is gone. I feel that dance music (and hip hop, for the most part, iks dance music) is intended for a visceral experience, and must be simplified to suit it.

What do you guys think?

When I listen to many 10+ year old hip hop tracks it feels very inert and dead, no matter how amazing I found it upon first listen.

Do you think this is why so many young people have no interest in digging into the musical history of hip hop? Like, even the rappers now seem to have no connection emotionally to anything older than 6 years old.

just curious as to what you guys think about this.

My wife caught an Esperanza Spalding concert in Houston years and years ago and loved what she was doing. I will let her know to check this out.

Here's hoping Ye makes the following changes to Pablo:

• removing Chris Brown from Waves and putting absolutely anyone in his place. I love the song, but I can't listen to Chris Brown sing "let me crash here for a moment, I don't have to own it" without thinking about a black and blue Rihanna. *shudders*

• turns "Facts" into an explicitly labeled bonus track, or just takes it off the album entirely.

• lets Chance put his goddamn verse on Waves! What the hell? Chance was apparently the reason the album was delayed until Feb. 14th. Apparently he was working on Waves. Kanye went ahead and made the world wait, then released the album without Chance's fucking verse!!! I want more Chance!! I want more Chance the Rapper and Kanye collabs! "Ultralight Beam" is like the best thing ever! Make it happen again!!

• includes the Madonna cut of "Highlights." I've come to really love the album version as is, even though it's got Thugger's bitch ass on it, so I don't nevessarily want the Mo version to replace the current one, but I think it should be on there. Maybe as a bonus track, kinda like how Late Registration had two takes of "Diamonds From Sierra Leone," and used the remix as the album track and the less interesting original as the bonus. Eh?

• Puts Sia and Vic back on "Wolves" ... "Wolves" is one song that he has mentioned by name, with the intention of "fixing" it. It sounds great on the album as is, but it would be great if those of us who've been waiting around for a studio version of the song we heard on SNL would finally fucking get one.

• Remove "I love Kanye" ... I laughed the first time, smiled when it came on the second time, but my smile fades after about 12 seconds. Not necessary. Plays like a skit. Get it off thay bitch.

That's just my ideal scenario for a final TLOP. Actually my ideal scenario would probably include "Only One" and "All Day", and I could do without "Low lights" even though it adds to the album's concept. It's still a great, great, great, great album-ish-type-thing, and I doubt anythjng will outshine it for me this year even if it stays as is. But it could be a perfect 10, and it isn't quite perfect at present.

Here's hoping his craziness, fickle, mind-changing tendencies work in our favor and he goes back on 90% of the things e's said in the last month. :D

Ooh yeah, I'm super interested in this! I'm actually heading out of town on an assignment today to a place with an actual goddamn music store that isn't Target or Best Buy, so maybe I'll pick this up!

You heard Bas yet bro?

This is a super good question, man, and one that I would love to talk about at length. Unfortunately duty calls and I've gotta jet, but I'll return to this later because I think a lot of people feel the way you do about hip-hop.

Honestly, I don't feel that way. I still get chills from Illmatic, Wu-Tang Forever, Ready to Die, Midnight Marauders, Dr. Octagon, The Cold Vein, pretty much everything involving MF DOOM or Madlib, and all early Wu solo projects. I listen to Kanye more than any other artist and that's been the case for years now so I don't lose my feeling for a song after 10-15 listens. But I can understand how someone might with Future or Thug, because even when they're making decent music, it's not super interesting.

And I love dance/IDM/techno/house, and I actually think it holds up better than most guitar based music (not that I don't love riffs) if only because there are usually so many layers to it and new things to hear and feel, a it's appropriate for so many different times and moods. Hip-hop (the kind you're talking about) really doesn't have much universality to it. It's very of the moment. It's party music, or driving music, and not much else. But a lot of hip hop is just as layered and textured and beautiful as he electronic music (speaking broadly here) that holds my interest so well.

More later. Good talking points, Rob!

it's silly, right?


this is my thing. Yeah.

I realized this whole TIDAL ONLY thing rubs me the same wrong way that Once Upon A Time In Shaolin did. It's artists who seem to think that buying their album is A PRIVILEGE and I should bend over backwards to give them MY money on THEIR terms. No. Dudes. Let's break it down: you are selling a product. I want to buy it. Let's make it happen.

Again, T-Swift not wanting to be on Spotify I can at least understand. You're boycotting one specific outlet for a specific reason. Even artists who make their shit exclusives to one retailer for a week or month or whatever - fine. But when you're saying "sorry, I know this is America but I'm stripping away your choice of where you want to do your business," that's when I think you just look like an asshole.

If it were a CD (or even mp3's) that I could only buy from kanyewest.com I'd even understand that. No middle man. But what this amounts to is I have to sign up for a gym membership to hear this album... and I don't have any desire to go to that gym. (BTW, am I right to assume that after the 30 dial trial... you can't have the album anymore right? Like, Kanye's asking you to pay AGAIN every month for as long as you want access to his album?)

Electronic music is boring. There. I said it.

Not sure about the 30 day trial question because as I said, I'm keeping Tidal going for now because I don't like stealing from him, even if he's asking for it.

Tidal allows you to download songs onto your device (if you choose the $19.99/month super premium absurdly expensive option) but even if you do that, I think you need to at least maintain the $12 monthly subscription to be able to access the album. (!!!)

I mean, I guess it is a gesture against capitalism (kind of... unless you see it as a push toward an even more malevolent kind of capitalism) and the disposability of music. And to be fair, I'd gladly pay a couple bucks a month just to keep my Kanye cd's. At $2/each that's about the cost of a Tidal subscription. And Tidal has a pretty good library of music.

But I don't have to pay for my CDs ever month. I buy them and they're mine! So that's faulty logic. But if a dictator took office and made me pay a tax on my Kanye albums, I'd do it. That makes Tidal sound even worse, and makes me even more pissed off about the whole thing.

Why doesn't he just pull a Radiohead and release it for free?! Then he can count the downloads all he wants, and avoid the pressures of sales figures without alienating anyone.

Yeah, he should just sell it exclusively through his website. Whatever. I think he may have succeeded in shutting down TPB... E least temporarily

Wow, that's...an astonishingly broad generalization. Most music from any given genre is boring. But "electronic music" encompasses more variations and styles and subgenres than I'm even aware of. It's like saying "non-electronic music is boring."

Way to write off everything from Kraftwerk to Eno to half of David Bowie's output to Aphex Twin to Deadmau5 (3$9'dkrs indeed suck) to the fuckin' Whitey Album to ... you get the point I hope. And based on what?

What's boring about Aphex Twin exactly? Have you never heard DJ Koze? Ever heard "I don't give a fuck" by DJ Rashad?

And the Tool graphic makes the entire sentiment seem like an ironic joke.

*puts on "Parabola"; sleeps forever*

I listened to Yeezus follower immediately by untitled unmastered. on the road just now. They make for a really good one-two punch.

There's this remix of "I love Kanye" by J.U.S.T.I.C.E. League and 8 Bars that actually turns it into a pretty decent little remix. The beat's boring as hell... not something Ye himself would ever touch, but it's interesting. Includes media snippets about Ye from Jimmy Kimmell and Barack Obama.... makes for a thoughtful little piece.

The beat is just corny though. Like, really corny. It sounds like a piece of a documentary your high school physics teacher showed you about space ... back in the early to mid '90s when you were actually in high school. Yeah, it's gross. But as a whole the track is cool.

JUSTICE League & 8 Bars - "Old Kanye" ("I Love Kanye" remix) YouTube

Kim did an interview today.

Was asked "why isn't Kanye's album on iTunes"

Answered: "because he's still mixing and mastering it... There may be some surprises. I can't give away too much. But it's coming very soon. It's coming very soon."

:confused: :confused: :confused:

I also saw some "test pressing" shots of a vinyl edition. Probably fake but still worth mentioning.

Also, TIdal's subscribers shot up 150% in the two weeks following Pablo's Feb 14tth release date. So I heard some buzz from Tidal that the company is interested in seeing a possible physical edition of the album, since it had essentially saved Tidal for the time being.

I don't know WHAT'S going on, but people really really really love this album.

So I guess I'm alone in the café today (and last night). That's cool. I've got stuff going on anyway. So much stuff. Totally important stuff that adults do. So, yeah, whatever. That's cool. You do you and I'll do me. Gotta go now ... important stuff calls.

...

I lied! I'm bored out of my mind! I've got nothing going on! Sitting at work fucking around with my phone! Fridays are so goddamn slow.

...
Guys?

Fetty Wap did a surprise show in Houston on Wednesday with Post Malone opening, and the reviews were sad.

Post Malone actually played White Iverson TWICE in a 20 minutes set.

No one pays their dues anymore....

Fetty had his whole Remy Boys crew onstage and he basically "rapped" for 30 minutes of a 1 hour set.

fucking shit hip hop shows.

(BTW, I cannot stand that neo-soul-jazzy-R&B shit that esperanza spaulding plays. I hate that shit so bad.)

Ew. Kind of a generic show though. I wouldn't go to that. No sir. I only go to hip-hop shows when it's a no bullshit powerhouse performer (Kendrick) or a sure fire nostalgic good ass time (De La Soul, Ghostface Killah). That's why I don't go to many hip hop shows anymore. Cause, come on, Fettt Wap? He's not the worst rapper in the world, but he's not interesting and I have no reason to believe he will be anything more than an already expired flavor of the month (that month being August of 2015).

I am glad I did not go