https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhIrzbhEGvs

jump to 2:33

i have faith in Q-Tip. i know he's usually associated with 90's rap, but he can be a lot more diverse than most people think. let's not forget he produced "That's My Bitch" off Watch the Throne which is far from traditional.

Q-Tip is always 110% man. His solo albums are so slept on too.

Is this what they teach in those non-science majors I've heard about? ;)

Nah, I'm actually surprised. You're making me want to listen to 2pac, and I'm just not that big of a fan. Never been a hater, but I don't know where the few Pac albums I own are because I listen to them sooo infrequently.

Of course he blows many of his early-90s hip hop superstar brethren out of the fucking water when it comes to lyrics and flow, but as I said recently, the one album I really love through and through is The Don Killuminati. Hurt M-Badd's beats were so much more fitting for Pac's style than those handled by Dre.

Honestly I think it's the only 2pac album that feels like the work of a genius. If not for that record, Specifically "Hail Mary," I don't think I'd have much to say about Pac.

Then again if not for In Utero I don't think I'd still be on Kurt's dick 20 years later. *shrug*

I haven't forgotten and I love Tip. I'm just saying the man was ahead of his time 20 years ago. I am not convinced he has what it takes to contribute to a Kanye solo album. Watch the Throne is badass, loved by all. But Kanye seems to be wisely neglecting to give a shit about who loves his music. WTT was an outlet for a side of Kanye that I'm not sure even exists anymore. An Arena hip hop, heavyweight title fight of an album. Like the end of Rocky 3, when Rocky and Apollo spar, jovially acknowledging that they're happy being even.

"Ding, Ding"

You all know I love Jay to death, but they're no longer even. One might argue that it's time for Apollo to get killed by a Russian so Rocky can avenge him and end the Cold War.

What were we talking about? Or yeah- q-tips.. I hate those plastic ones. It's like, if you're gonna break on impact, why are you even a thing? Am I right?

(I love Q-tip. I'm just feeling cantankerous)

Das EFX - Dead Serious - 1992 - East West
This album ushered a whole new sound when it dropped. It had that whole EPMD-sound for sure, but the whole "-iggity" thing was just so weird and awesome at the time. Plus, the rapid fire lyrics were full of various pop-culture pieces. Very unique and interesting. It definitely holds up today as well. The classics "Mic Checka" and "They Want EFX" are well... classics. But there's a lot of cool deeper cuts like the crazy epic beat on "If Only" or "Klap Ya Handz," which was the track that got them signed and would later be referenced on Tribe's own "Clap Your Hands." It's also interesting how they tried to balance pop and an underground aesthetic. In the same song that "shit" is edited out, the word "fuck" appears twice. It's almost charming in a baffling way. Similarly, even when the beats tried to stay rugged and they were rapping about hanging out in sewers, they also recorded a song about shitting your pants... which is just bizarre. But again unique.

sev did you watch that part of YT vid I linked??

Whoops, yes I did... missed your post completely at first, but yes- "Thank You"? Yeah.
And I get where you're coming from. It's a great song, and Tip's still relevant.

But my concerns are still valid. As good as Q-tip may be, does his style compliment Ye's so well that he should be overseeing a significant portion of one of the most high-stakes follow ups of one of the most unblemished discogs in hip hop? I just don't know.

Thankfully he's a control freak, and he'll be editing and auditing the fuck out of anyone who gets production credit on his records.

I motherfuckin' gotta get that S. Carter joint. Holy fuck. I actually seem to recall hearing something about it, but I can't be sure... I know I didn't buy those sneakers, so if I ever did know about it, I guess I considered it out of reach.

But something about that cover is really familiar.
I'm hoping I didn't skip this thing over at a used CD store at some point. That would really grind my balls.
Where did you squire this gem?

7 Day Theory is indeed Pac's masterpiece, it is one of the most original, brilliant, and thought provoking rap records, indeed musical records of any genre, period. That encapsulated everything that was perfection within Pac's styles. It was gangsta yet it was overtly political. It was intelligent yet it was totally crudely street. It was feminist yet it was misogynistic. It was honest but it was also veiled. And the beats and music were totally innovative for rap music. It was almost like a fucking gangsta rap art-rock record yo..

You would also like All Eyez On Me if you like this..



Exactly!! Pac's style of rhyming is totally underrated in its originality and complexity. He didn't freestyle well but he could construct crazy rhyme patterns and again, used his cadence and delivery to make it work in the right timing. We just won't see that again, a rapper who so thoroughly challenges the conventions of rap music while not being in the least pretentious about it.

Propz to The Game for his lines on this track..

http://grantland.com/hollywood-prosp...michael-brown/

The Game has about 6 or 7 really really conscious and political tracks which on their own put him in the top-10 of rap.. Indeed, if the dude could have ALL his raps like those tracks he could be in the top-5.. To be sure, Jesus Piece was a total fucking let down because I thought it was going to be a gangsta but conscious record like 7 Day Theory or Lets Get Free by Dead Prez BUT instead it was more like Kanye's Yeezus, an empty and dull record about debauchery..

I actually feel terrible at this post. There's a flea market that me and my wife hit once a year. It's a paint to get to, it costs money to get in, and it's an all day affair. I found the Jay-Z boot for $5. And they had a half dozen copies. I thought about buying them all to flip but figured nobody would want em for prices worth flipping. Wish I grabbed you one. Next time I'm there, I'll make it a point... but it will probably be next year. :\

Not only am I bumping archaic rap music on campus, I am the only one dressing even remotely gangster.. I was walking around realizing, "Wait, I look pretty fucking gangster today compared to all these other people."

Then when I got home from class and pulled up at my bredren's house for a post-work/school beer session, when I walked in the door his first comment was, "Who is this ninja in a gangsta a$$ pendleton shirt??"

Hahahaha.. last year some of my students during the first week of the year told me in all sincerity and as a compliment, "Mr.. you dress like a 1990s rapper." !!!!

#priceless

this cover looks so fucking great. makes me wanna hear the album.

Surprised you havent heard it louder.

Public Enemy - It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back - 1988 - Def Jam
Just a year after their debut album Public Enemy return with what is an undoubted classic. Questlove from The Roots has often cited It Takes A Nation as the defining record that led to him taking music seriously as a career. And it's understandable why. This album certainly sounds like the time it was released, but the power is not diminished in the slightest. Produced by Chuck D and Hank Shocklee before they grew into the full on Bomb Squad, the tracks are full of that urgent and layered sound of sirens and shrieks. It's a dense, wonderful mess that also makes the more restrained tracks ("Show 'Em Whatcha Got," "Black Steel In The Hour Of Chaos" ) stand out even more. It Takes A Nation spawned several of PE's biggest hits including "Bring The Noise" but this is a masterpiece that deserves to be played in full to hear all the various twists and turns that it takes including what is probably my personal favorite PE track of all time "She Watch Channel Zero?!" that features a jaw-droppingly amazing Slayer sample.

The Roots - Do You Want More?!!!??! - 1994 - DGC
The second Roots album scored them their first hit with "Proceed." I suppose not a hit in the grand scheme, but it at least put them on the hip hop map. This, their major label debut certainly felt more produced than their actual debut, but it still retained a very live feel to it. You can definitely close your eyes and picture them playing on a street corner or in a small club. In fact "Essayhuman?!!!??!" - their soundcheck song at the time - was even recorded live for this record (as it was earlier on Organix). What's great about this record is just how jazz it all was. From the chilled to frantic tempos of "Mellow My Man" to the scatting in "Datskat" to the drums-vs.-voice in "? Vs. Rahzel" to the Steely Dan-nod bassline in "Swept Away" to the goddamn bagpipes in the title track, this is an album built on jamming, improvisation and the absolute thrill of exploring what your instruments can really do. Even Black Thought's vocals (and to a somewhat lesser extent Malik's... and to a much greater extent Rahzel's) are more concerned with sound than context on much of the material. And then you hit the final two tracks: an insane (freestyle?) cypher over intense vocal-only backing track followed closely by a slow-burner spoken word piece by Ursula Rucker. It's a crazy melting pot of sounds that embrace hip hop and jazz totally 50/50 in a way that is impressive - even if not perfect (I mean "Lazy Afternoon" only has one verse repeated multiple times) in such a commendable way that it should serve as the blueprint for all live hip hop bands, which we seriously need more of.

(where my doods at???)

I haven't listened to PE in years. Goddamn Flava Flav for having a Vh1 show. I mean, he was part of the hip-hop genre's closest thing to hardcore punk. I can't imagine Chuck D would approve.

But back when I did bump PE regularly, It Takes a Nation... was always my favorite record. Superior to Fear of a Black Planet, though few would agree, it's the sound of hip hop shedding all novelty and getting real.

Where is my ninja the Instigator at I KNOW he is bout it bout it for this one yo

Hah, I haven't listened to Do You Want More in years either. But the fact that the Roots are still plugging out albums that rank among the best of the best, 20+ years later is more than proof of their artistic merits, which I've found myself doubting over the years, I have to admit.

It's a little too clean though. Illadelph Halflife struck a better balance between sounds.

PE: My favorite is still Apocalypse 91 honestly. I just adore that record - but nostalgia is a powerful drug. It Takes A Million has "Channel Zero" though. Unreal. But man honestly, that had such a run of albums from Bum Rush through Muzik (yup, I liked that one a lot).

The Roots; yeah - Do You Want more def had more a jazz lean than Illadelph. And Illadelph is prob my fav. But Do You Want more was my intro and led to an obsession haha.

I commend them big time. Still knocking out solid albums at a solid rate. Got the day job to fund it. Doing what they want. In many ways they're like the Sonic Youth of hip hop. Using their clout to put lesser knowns on. Doing weird side projects (Elvis Costello yo?). They're the best.

I started reading Questlove's autobiography a while ago. I need to get back to that.

Whoah, dude... The Roots the Sonic Youth of hip-hop? I love making comparisons like that, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here.
;)

What an album cover. I love that "explicit lyrics/street raps" thing in the corner. Like it's saying, "parental advisory: black people!"

Never listened to that album but I might have to now.

I think the Africa medallion, excuse me, pendant, implied that yes ;)

Hmm. Well, don't feel bad. I'm not sure anyone would want to buy it. I just know I'd drop $25 on it without a second thought.

Although it did occur to me that I downloaded Jay-Z's entire discography about a year and a half ago, simply because I was trying to fill a couple iPods with my favorite artists' music for long days at the office, and I was sick of having to track down a CD every time I wanted to update my playlists.

Anyway it was a massive torrent, and it might have included this. Still nothing like owning it, but it's possible that I have this somewhere.

If not then yeah... Next year. Don't think I'll forget either ;)

I can't get over how considerate you are, NR. What a right proper chap you are! I occasionally email someone a leaked copy of a new album if I deem them worthy, but that's the extent of my good deeds. The fact that you'd actually consider picking something up for someone you don't even know is pretty admirable.

My hat goes off to you, sir.

Well said! But honestly, you're talking to a Child of the '90s, remember? I was in high school when All Eyez dropped. I remember when "California Love" dominated every car stereo, billboard chart and homecoming dance in the country. So even though I spent 96 banngin' "Brooklyn's Finest" on repeat and praying for the arrival of what would become Wu-Tang Forever, I certainly didn't miss out on All Eyez on Me. (Though I did kinda write 2pac off for a long time... 2pac, Dre, Snoop, and most of the bug West Coast players. Shame on me. I think this thread has helped me mellow out and allow myself to enjoy them again however.)

I don't think All Eyez on me is as good as 7 Day Theory, but it's an undeniable classic. Actually it was one of the first gangsta rap albums I ever owned. Again, no idea where it is now... But you're right, it's probably the #2 2pac release in my opinion. I thought that was Me Against the World for a while, but I think I needed some constant hip-hop exposure ( like this thread! ) to force me to re-evaluate my views on some things.

For instance, before this thread I was not bangin' any west coast rap from the '90s. It's like I had retroactively bought into the idea that one had to be either an East Coast guy or a West Coast guy when it came to rap, and if I had to choose (which I fuckin don't!) I'd be East Coast all the way... But since that's not the case, and since I've been engaging in this 3-year long hip hop conversation with you ninjas, I've gone back and listened to albums like The Chronic and Doggystyle, and Regulate and (yeah) All Eyez on Me, and I've allowed myself to open up and be less of a little bitch about the whole thing.

I guess I have to thank you all. My head is sufficiently removed from my ass such that I can bump Snoop Dogg's greatest hits (a recent purchase), Wiz's Blacc Hollywood & 50 Cent's entire discography loudly and proudly from the speakers of my 2009 Subaru Outback without fear that I am betraying some sort of regional or intellectual allegiance that restricts me only to "serious artists" or indie artists or ninjas from East of Chicago.

This is a scattered post, I've been starting and stopping in my down time for hours, and once again I'm finding that my original thought has been lost along the way.

Basically I am grateful for this thread because it had encouraged an open discussion of hip-hop as a whole, and as a result I've become a lot more open minded about the rap that I listen to. It's embarrassing to admit that I held a coastal bias until so fucking recently, but I did (despite being born and raised on the West, myself.. Hah!)... Anyway, I've said this before, but this thread has helped me appreciate artists I had more or less written off, even if I did listen to them in my youth. So thanks kids.

Man my wind is so long I should take up the bagpipes.

Hey, did y'all know that just before the release of Cellar Door: Terminus Ut Exordium both AK and Issa Gold released free solo mixtapes to promote the albums release date?

AK- Blessings in the Gray


Issa Gold- Conversations With A Butterfly


Issa's has been more successful, I think. At least, people seem to be downloading it more than Blessings in the Gray, but both are interesting (slightly paradoxical) additions to Cellar Door: Terminus Ut Exordium, and I almost feel like this could have been a double album, if the music from these mixtapes had been included.

That was a good post Severian, don't feel some kind of way about long posts, its just us here anyway, we'z all friendz here yo!

I find it interesting how you found westcoast rap a bit later, I must confess that while I've been bumping some Eastcoast rap I really could never get into the sound of it (aside from Busta Rhymes, Dead Prez, OutKast, Kool Keith, Talib Kweli) I don't like the beats or style of flow. So in a way I almost envy your hip hop maturity in being able to expand your comfort zone, meanwhile my own seems to shrink (hip hop wise) as I get older..

Though part of this may be because as I get older I discover too much other genres of music and my brain doesn't have the room! Since I got into my late-20s and 30s I started listening to WAY more reggae, soul, jazz, blues, world, and especially the Grateful Dead (which has thus far overtaken fully HALF of my music collection, up to 15 gigs ALL live Dead shows)..

Our different but overlapping tastes is what makes this thread so great.

@SuchFriends:

I hear you about discovering too much music for a brain to handle.
Imagine my reaction when I realized that I really did LOVE electronic music as a whole (not just trip-hop, & artists like Aphex Twin, Autechre, Squarepusher, Portishead & Daft Punk) ... I felt like I has a mountain to climb. It's been downright exhausting, learning aboht all these sub-genres and sub-sub-genres. I've spent a LOT of money delving into electronic music, and I'm still missing out on some of the key artists that have kept the genre going.

Worth it though. Definitely worth it.

another amazing cover art. cot damn.

new FlyLo x Kendrick collab is out of this world.

The Roots - Things Fall Apart - 1999 - MCA
The transition from Illadelph to Things Fall Apart is almost dizzying. Dialogue from the film Mo' Better Blues sets the stage: "the people don't come because you grandiose motherfuckers don't play shit that they like. If you played the shit that they like, then the people would come. Simple as that." It's an interesting thought here though, as Things Fall Apart is a far slicker album production-wise than anything the roots had released prior. Instrumentation is fleshed out even further. And much of the street-level sounding material from Illadelph was left behind. In a sense this is a record that shares a lot more in common with the jazz leanings of Organix and Do You Want More, though the loose improvisational feel has also been abandoned and instead aims for something far more precise and glossy. Perhaps it was a genuine aim to get a wider audience to come? If so, then it worked. "You Got Me" was easily the biggest hit the band had up until that point. But the good news is that this sort of widening the scope isn't synonymous with selling out. The Roots as a band have always been interested in pushing themselves outward. So while their earlier jazz-lean morphed further into harder-core hip hop from album to album, it then transformed into a neo-soul sound that introduced (and reintroduced) a whole new scene. Check out the roster of folks involved - DJ Jazzy Jeff, Jay Dee, Mos Def, Common, Erykah Badu - and you have a good idea of what this is gonna sound like. But you also kind of don't. Sure there's more guitar here than in previous Roots albums. Sure lots of the tempos stay on the slower side. But it's a melting pot of sounds... "The Spark" finally showcases Questlove's old school breakbeats as the front-and-center star of track, yet later on "You Got Me," he ends the epic by letting it dissolve and then erupt into legit drum-n-bass; Black Thought and Mos Def get their call-and-response on ("Double Trouble") harkening back to the 80's and then later on Beanie Sigel stops by. But perhaps the finest moment of this album is when the band are able to convince Common to make a sequel to his classic "I Used To Love H.E.R." with "Act Too (The Love Of My Life)." Nestled into the middle of the album is serves as a manifesto. A new line drawn in the sand.



Snoop Doggy Dogg - Doggystyle - 1993 - Death Row Records
Snoop's debut is an undeniable classic. Though it serves as a sort of companion to Dre's The Chronic it succeeds just as well - and perhaps slightly better seeing as how Dre always seems far more comfortable behind the boards than in front of the mic. Snoop on the other hand was a showman from the get-go, and it's hard not to hang off every word here. Not only is the record full of classic singles - "Who Am I (What's My Name)?," "Gin & Juice," "Murder Was The Case," "Doggy Dogg World" - it hangs together incredible even when bouncing from style to style. It also helps that Death Row at the time was an impressively large crew that was bursting with energy and ideas. With that in mind it's not so surprising that the first verse on Snoop's solo debut would be from Lady Of Rage rather than himself. Or that he'd do a straight of cover of Slick Rick's "Lodi Dodi." Or that such a chill track would then lead in to the one-two punch of "Murder Was The Case" and "Serial Killer." Really there's a lot of take note of here when considering just how creative and confident Snoop was coming out of the gate. But ultimately all that needs to be said is that it's a bonafide classic that epitomizes the sound of the 90's West Coast "G-Funk" sound. This and The Chronic are absolutely mandatory listening.

Lulz was hoping youd comment on Doggystyle.

I will.. indeed Doggiestyle dates your era.. if you were alive and between 12-21 in California you knew EVERY SINGLE WORD to EVERY SINGLE track off that record. Indeed, when people DON'T know the whole words we look at them like, "Dude where the fuck were you?"

Haha yeah. Im on the east coast but i still feel you.