you see?

people who know both zappa and captain beefheart extensively will always choose zappa over captain beefheart.

oh, you've conducted surveys about this, have you?

Says who?Can you provide extensive proof for this sort of statement?

Sorry to break your hearts guys, but it doesn't sounds like Captain wrote much of the music at all:

and, of course, beefheart has always claimed that all 'trout mask replica' numbers were worked out by himself in one eight and a half hour stretch. and that he wrote them on piano without ever having previously touched the instrument….

"right. true. he had never played the piano before and he didn't then. it was eight hours of this: (simulates chopstick keyboard playing). and then níne mónths of the band putting together the music.

the music was put together by the band. not by him. it was to-tal-ly arranged by the band. at one point he said: 'here, play this chord to me'. and there happen to be ten notes in the chord and i play guitar, which has six strings, right? so i said: 'hey, it's a little hard to do.' and he said: 'well, you'd better come up with the other four strings'."


Gee, i wonder if this is why the magic bands performs without Captain Beefheart nowadays???



"as a lyricist he is one of the best i have ever heard in my life. he's not a musician…. he got credit for doing a lot of music that he never did. it came from the band…."

Somebody's so scared about the poll that they're willing to log in under a troll just to cook poll numbers.


I really could care less if i was the only person.


Fact is fact: captain beefheart is just a poet, but Zappa was worlds ahead of him. Without Zappa, there would be no captain beefheart.

Amen.

If you (Khchris) calmed down a little and all of your opinions weren't so black and white and tiresome then I might... just might respond to your distortion of the truth.

Right now you look really foolish.

That's nice.


I think you're afraid to respond to anything i say in fear of being wrong. Yes, it's better you don't respond.

Mental health might be an issue here(and i hope so because that's the only thing that would condone such rubbish).

Splutter! Stammer! RAGE!



repeat

[quote=whorefrost]you're wrong most of the time

just ignore him everyone else does.

its okay..... i read something different. its true, beefheart had no idea how to play any instrument or music. but have you ever played the piano? you dont need much technique or prior knowledge to bang on some keys untill you find something that sounds good to you. this is what he did at least for the entire trout mask replica album although i think he did it for all. It's true, he didnt tell the guitarist how to barre the chord from the piano he was playing. But he did make up all the notes being played. He made them practice the album for like 9 months. He wouldnt even let them leave the fucking house. It's insane I know. So when they went in to record the album, they recorded it in a fucking day or so because they had it so spot on. Zappa just pressed record really.

If I remember I'll see if I can find the article where the ACTUAL memebers of the band talk about their experience.

I voted for Zappa, but I think everyone could have guessed that....to me it's not really close. The Captain rules though.

oddly enough, one of the songs on trout mask replica was probably 95% zappa with the only contribution of captain was his lyrics recorded through a phone, which evidently was ZAPPA'S IDEA, not captain.


I would say captain was responsible for about 40% of the album with the magic band being the other 40% and i think a good 20% goes to Zappa, his influence on Captain Beefheart, which stems from when they were teenagers, and Zappa's production which made Trout Mask Replica so unique. i don't think TMR would've been the same with anyone else producing it.

Zappa was the one who pursuaded Beefheart to sing in the first place.

all we know is that captain was responsible for the lyrics.

anything more than his vocals is highly questionable.


With Zappa, you knew he was the mastermind behind all his solo efforts, that will never be questioned.

I get the feeling most here just don't know about zappa, mothers, and how ahead of his time he really was, great albums like apostrophe, but are kinda "bandwagon" jumpers because zappa maybe too "popular" or that alot of kids probably were more interested in beefheart because he was more obscure.

zappa is famous because he was a musical genius. Captain beefheart isn't.

I've been a huge fan of both for decades, but it wasn't until i started understanding about the musicianship and the complexity of Zappa's work where i really really appreciated him. but, not all of us are as into complexity and pushing creativity as some of us.

it's really no contest. beefheart was fucking amazing, but over the years, alot of people, as well as Zappa himself, questioned the integrity of captain beefheart. his own band wants nothing to do with him.

it's like saying "Jello Biafra wrote the dead kennedy's music" when he didn't at all. he may have had a hand in composition trying to fit his part into the band, but he didn't really do anything with the music.

www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=48159

Okay, hopefully you have an account so you can get to it. It's a shitload of reading but its very informative since it comes straight from the mouth of the musicians. Beefheart may be a crazy dictator with his band. But he did write MOST of the music.

Tuppence: Analaguous to ME Smith, Beefheart wrote either lots or little or none of the music, but 'twas under the rubric of his invention that it took flight; although the magic band are probably under-credited, I'm not as interested in their stuff sans Vilet and I'm very much not in a minority in that.

Zappa doesn't interest me in the slightest, and I'm not a rabid Beefheart fan - I don't find Beefheart annoying, and, thankfully, Beefheart doesn't have an utterly daunting discography that smacks of lack of quality control.

But what then is a pop song? Surely 'tis but the synergy of words and music? Whenceforth the priveleging of nought but its partitions - sound/ words/ music/ 'soul'/ other hollow platitudes? Are we seriously considering an analysis of Zappa/ Beefheart under serious musical discussion? While they are not entirely exempt, surely there are better places to follow that dialogue? Surely we are suffocated by a miscegenation of a dialogue which threatens to engulf the genuine worth of 'rock' music, in all its myriad beauty?

All the quotes i gave were from the members of the magic band. so who's right and who's wrong???

it still doesn't clear up the fact that zappa's mothers music was used on one of the tracks, so yeah, beefheart didn't write "all the music" like these guys are saying.

it's frustratin' that it's rare when someone over at dime correctly notes that it's a reseed. ('ppreciate the announcement though) There is, however, a new seed of a Magic Band reunion video from June this year that was added today, but anyway, it's the fourth page & no one has done it, (I don't think) so...

I'm a little pimp with my hair gassed back
Pair a khaki pants with my shoe shined black

Got a little lady . . . walk the street
Tellin' all the boys that she can't be beat

Twenny dollah bill (I can set you straight)
Meet me onna corner boy 'n don't be late

Man in a suit with a bow-tie neck
Wanna buy a grunt with a third party check

Standin' onna porch of the Lido Hotel
Floozies in the lobby love the way I sell:
HOT MEAT
HOT RATS
HOT CATS
HOT RITZ
HOT ROOTS
HOT SOOTS

HOT MEAT
HOT RATS
HOT CATS
HOT ZITZ
HOT ROOTS
HOT SOOTS

It doesn't come down to the ethics of it... "Beefheart wouldn't be anywhere without Zappa!" Well, pardon me, but do any of YOU know either of them? No. Frank Zappa has been dead for years. You have no idea if Beefheart would have taken up music without Zappa, DO YOU? No. Yes, it is a known fact that they were in school together and were good friends, but that doesn't mean shit. This thread isn't about that. It's about who you like better, so pick one and shut the fuck up.

He might have taken up music, but without Zappa, he would have never had access to a band to translate his musical ideas into musical notes, and he would have never had money to record his musical ideas onto Magnetic Tape and then onto Acetate.

So, without Zappa he wouldn't have even been on this thread.

And I did pick one...idiot...I picked Zappa.

Ah, but you did not shut the fuck up.

Either did you, what the hells the point?

Because I am a hypocrite, sir.
How did you get that user title? Did chabib do that?

Yeah, do you like it?

I think it's kind of sexy. I wish I had earned it... but I still haven't found out who called chabib last night.

I do like it.
It was Laila.

Zappa was the king, although that image is reversed.

"Don (Captain Beefheart) is not technically oriented, so, first I had to help him figure out what he wanted to do, and then, from a practical standpoint, how to execute his demands. ... We taped a few selections... and I thought they sounded terrific, but Don got paranoid, accused me of trying to do the album on the cheap, and demanded to go into a real recording studio."-Frank Zappa from "The Real Frank Zappa Book"

It's starting to sound like Captain Beefheart would be nothing without Zappa. Not only did Zappa influence Captain Beefheart musically, but also penned his name for him.

isn't he talking about the studio equipment when he says "not technically oriented?"

i know the documentary i watched, jimmy carl black said they recorded the album in something like 4 hours, after spending months rehearsing what beefheart had written. He also says something to the effect of, "Frank's amazing, but Beefheart is the real deal," which coming from jimmy carl black is a pretty huge compliment.

i'd pick beefheart over zappa. i have many reasons, they've probably been eluded to on this page many times. however, just think of this:

beefheart influenced Pere Ubu, PiL, Wire, and the Minutemen.
zappa influenced Phish.

This is exactly how I feel whenever I read Khchris...
Anyway back on topic... TMR was entirely Beefheart's vision, there would have been no album without him. The Magic Band interpreted his ideas beautifully... and Zappa produced it. It's as simple as that.

I have periodically given Zappa a spin over the years, but with little success... it's a taste thing really, as Savage Clone so eloquently points out, I respect Zappa's achievements and undoubted talent... but his music just doesn't move me. I have heard Lumpy Gravy, Bongo Fury, Zoot Allures, Hot Rats and doubtless a few others that I can't remember. So my question to all you Frankophiles out there is what should I listen to next?... What is the album that will make me see the light?

Maybe......




Have you heard Freak Out! ???

Never heard "freak out"???

WOW!

That's like a staple. Kinda strange you would hear TMR before FREAK OUT.

my favorite might be APOSTROPHE after FREAK OUT, but freak out is a MOI album and not really a Frank "solo" album.

suzi creamcheese?

now i got "help, i'm a rock" stuck in my head!!!


I think i'm going to throw that disc in right now!

No no no.And i mean NO!NO!NO!Don't give in Toxic Johnny.It's wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Totally forgot about JOES GARAGE!