Whoo...that's a complex issue: At what point and under what circumstances did 'hippie' branch off from 'beat'? Is 'beat' primarily right-wing/social libertarian and individualist, while 'hippie' is intrinsically left-wing/restrictive and socialist? I don't think I want to visit those issues right now!--although they have been sitting there contentiously in the back of my mind since high school!

all this over the doors. a shitty bar band with a drunken faux-poet for a lead singer. at least his voice didnt suck complete shit.

and the stooges 30 percent crap? welp might as well not even argue with this statement. listen a few more times and tell us if you still feel the same way.

Unless stupidity decided to reign supreme on this board, I didn't imply in my previous post that Roxy Music didn't have any influence on bands from Sheffield or not. They aren't a particular example to single out, though. Jesus.

been listening for 15 years. 25-30% of the songs on their albums are plain vanilla garage rock.

"...A shitty bar band..."...? Now I know you're out to lunch! If that's what you call a "shitty bar band"--a group that performs complex, finger-testing, stop-on-a-dime numbers like 'Spanish Caravan', 'When The Music's Over' and 'Light My fire'--then all I can say is "bring on the shitty bar bands!" You have the nerve or the ignorance to refer to The Doors as "a shitty bar band" in comparison to The Stooges and The Velvet Underground?!! For Christ's sakes, go actually listen to the albums of all three groups for a change! Manzarek--analogous to John Cale--is a classically trained pianist. John Densmore is a superb drummer who supplied the jazz backbeat. Krieger is generally regarded as one of the greatest guitarists to come out of that era--Is there any style of music he can't play? Morrison a "faux poet"...? A man whom Michael McClure has referred to as "the greatest poet of his generation"...? A man who has appeared in The Paris Review...? The only thing I can figure is that you're one of those people who appraises talent with a 180-degrees opposite set of criteria than the norm--i.e., someone who who would consider Johnny Ramone a better guitarist than Jimi Hendrix or Eric Clapton; or Plan 9 From Outer Space a better film than 400 Blows or La Dolce Vita. There have been quite a few people taking this sort of approach to the popular arts ever since punk hit in the mid '70s. It's a sort of 'sour grapes' approach that's difficult for sensible folks to comprehend or do battle with: we're simply not on the same page. Also, you sound as if you're taking a lot of your quotes and influence from semi-erroneous popular culture, without actually listening to the records. "...A drunken faux poet..." sounds a hell of a lot like something one would pick up after watching Cameron Crowe's Almost Famous--which has a fictionalised portrayal of bitter, jealous, socially atrophied rock critic Lester Bangs, who had a penchant for celebrating (perceived) losers--a few times too many. Let me ask you, Mr. Batreleaser--considering as how you're not only a renowned music critic but also a poetry expert--What would you consider to be Morrison's most accomplished work? The surrealistic dreamscapes contained in The New Creatures or the more self-revealing outcries found in the posthumous volumes Wilderness and The American Night? I won't hold my breath. Like so many others out there, youre just trying to 'sound cool' by associating with a certain dogmatic clique, throwing arrows with little arms at targets you're not even familiar with. I would not be a tad bit surprised to discover that not only have you not read Morrison's books or listened to all the original Doors releases from start to finish, but you haven't even heard as much as 35% of the recorded output by the groups you are so quick to applaud--Velvets, Stooges, etc.--in order to fit into some silly little typecasted clique, allowing you to feel as if you 'belong'. Pathetic....

Now you're going overboard--I'm not Ray Manzarek's press secretary!

people are strange, man

they are not POETRY, they are lyrics.
wildly different

What drug are you on ? :confused:

David Lynch's Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me (1992)

The voice of reason.

Absolutely.

Technically speaking I would say Cale is more of the musically talented.

But Lou Reed is a genuine artist - he has vision and creativity. To charge him with being a charlatan is blind ignorance; he clearly has dedication to his own artistic vision and integrity.

Both great. Both genuine and both two of the most influencial and important artists spanning the last 5 decades.

>> I don't think The Velvets, The Stooges, The Doors, MC5, Led Zeppelin or even The Beatles can match Roxy Music when it comes to influence <<

What absolute twaddle.

That is not even worth entering into further debate.

That you are.

You have listened to the radio, visited the record stores, and watched the music channels over the past 30 years, have you not...? The period from roughly '73 through '87 is virtually owned by Roxy Music, on both sides of the Atlantic. Their direct influence can be heard and seen in everything from glam to prog to punk to disco to new wave to no wave to goth to new romantic to techno to hair metal. And no, I'm not some major Roxy Music fan trying to build a case for them as 'greatest band of all time' or what-have-you, just telling it objectively like it is.