so what do you believe tokolosh?

To believe is to not know for sure.

i'm particularly interested in Herbert Edgar Wyndham's experiment in which he evolved his pet dalmation dempsey into a humanoid life form with the intelligence of a chimpanzee

If the the theories of a man who single-handedly proved that there aren't different races within human beings have to be questioned in this time and age,i think we are pretty fucked up as a whole.

ok so what do you think then?

here is another facsinating extract from the life of herbert edgar wyndham

In partnership with scientist Jonathan Drew, Wyndham moved his experiments to the seclusion of Wundagore Mountain in the Balkans. Discovery of the uranium on the land (inherited by Drew's wife) provided vast funding, and they bought more land from local baron Gregor Russoff. Assembling a "citadel of science" designed by German scientist Horace Grayson, the pair continued their experiment until Drew's daughter fell ill from uranium poisoning, and was placed into suspended animation to save her life. Subsequently, Drew's wife was attacked and killed by a werewolf (Russoff himself, victim of a family curse), and Drew left Wundagore; Wyndham, on the other hand, developed a suit of protective silver armor for himself and continued his work. Now joined in his work by research assistant Mile Warren, Wyndham was able to make more and more radical breakthroughs, including the genetic acceleration of some local animals into the half-human, half-animal beings that he dubbed his "New Men".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles...eligious_views

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles...ws_on_religion

I think that Darwin was a brilliant naturalist, even by todays standards. He opened the doors to many questions that science is still trying to deal with today. Thanks to him, we can now bring science a step closer to finding out more about the origins of species and the truth behind evolution.

What's your explanation for posting those links atari?

I want to die by having my nuclear fuel cell slowly drain away as I witness the death pangs of the universe we live in in my 15 BILLION year old cyborg body, which I have had my brain and consciousness uploaded onto, long after the human race is but a speck of memory among the cosmos, and I have travvelled the multiverse seeking new life and new civilizations and I have seen the wonders of the universe... That would be a GREAT way to die.

dude! they have observed speciation in flatworms, in bacteria, in fruit flies, in all sorts of animals!!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles...eligious_views

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles...ws_on_religion
I posted the links to affirm for purposes of the debate that religion (or at least a belief in God) still has value even though evolution is true.
Evolutionary theory obviously has great value since it is, after all, true. What hasn't been as obvious for many people (many of them scientists) is that God (& Myth) has value as well still. At least particle physicists know the truth. This is not to say that creationism should ever supersede the teachings of science in school systems. On the contrary, religion and state should always be kept separate. Sadly, our current political climate regarding this "origin issue" proves that history has taught us nothing.

Darwin himself was a Christian, then an agnostic. He never stopped believing in God. As the links explain, he renounced Christianity after the death of his daughter. He stopped believing in a merciful God that one can appeal to for anything by word, and this is correct, because God is Natural Law. In my mind (notice the quotation marks), "God" must be "appealed to" by deed in accordance to Natural Law. As far as our minds will ever truly comprehend, "God" and the Natural Laws of the observable universe are one and the same. Darwin would have probably liked the song "Big Sky" by The Kinks.

I agree. Denouncing god altogether, could/would be naive.
I'm not religious, but I won't deny his existance (natural law) that easily either.
Oh! I have so much to learn, and so little time...

It's crazy to think that people in the U.S. had a better handle on the issue way back in 1925 during the Scopes trial. And it was Prohoibition at the time to boot. Well, I guess there were still bootleggers and lots of (still) legal narcotics heehe.

DUH! Of course!
Thats why i intend to lobby schools in my area to teach that it was ME who created the world 10 billion years ago and that i have traversed through the ages in the form of man, bird, fish, ape and dinosaur, creating all life and (eventually) human concepts as i trundled along. You can't prove that i'm wrong because our human perception of the world is a function of our cognitive and perceptual processes, and the result of this is that every opinion ever formed is impure and affected by our own inner prejudices and expectations, therefore you can't prove me wrong, and my statements are as valid as Christian theories of Creationism, and i am your God.

Now fuck off.

i'm pro evo

Me too!

Don't know much about it. Only that it had something to do with forbidding the teachings of evolution by a certain Mr Scopes.

Scopes was charged with having taught from a chapter on evolution to a class at a Tennessee high school on May 5, 1925 in violation of the Butler Act. He was arrested, but not detained.
The Scopes trial decision effectively overturned Tennessee's The Butler Act from the earlier the very same year (these decidely less-spoiled American citizens wasted no time in correcting the bullshit plate put on their table courtesy of politicians) and has since been used as a precedent in many court cases throughout the United States and in the Supreme Court.

Interesting read.
1925 heh? I cannot help but wonder, how many people are still anti-evolution to this day.