You can produce/write music without being a musician. So your logic is faulty there young stud.
The topic ain't me, that's for sure (but I'm flattered, really).

People who use samplers and/or make hip hop beats have spent years honing their craft just as much as the next Joe Wankaguitarsolo.

My logic is faulty? You're saying that Schumann wasn't a musician?

Also, unless I'm much mistaken, I'm older than you, and you're still a dickhead.

Edit: Seriously though, what other criterion can there be for 'being a musician' than 'produces music'? I'm genuinely baffled.

If he didn't play a musical instrument, no, he was just a composer. To be a musician you need the ability to play an instrument (something the kids are doing less and less these days). Programming a sampler/computer doesn't make you a fucking musician.

He was just a composer? That's all he was? A composer. So if, say, Aphex Twin suddenly picks up a guitar - any guitar, tuned, stringed or not - and hits it with an object, he suddenly, after some 20-odd years of 'not being a musician', becomes a musician because he's made a sound with an object with an apparent surface acoustic? Are pianist musicians? Only they (like dance producers) don't directly affect the production of sound but set the mechanics into motion for that sound to be produced. Same with a cimbalom or a hurdy-gurdy. Theraminists - are they musicians?

Again, missed the edit: programming a computer doesn't make you a good musician. What is an instrument? I'd guess the definition is 'a means of producing sound' - you'll notice it's the same word we use to refer to objects with functions - a hammer is an instrument to hit nails in with. A guitar, computer, whistle or wolf carcass are all instruments that can produce sounds; that is, they are the instruments of musicians.

Pookie, dear, you're as old as some of the best vintage models, so I'll go with that.

What about those who do both? Do you even have enough knowledge of how a lot of music is composed these days? Of course you haven't. If you can discuss names in detail, you have an argument. If not, you're just being, well, argumentative.

He's definitely a Buchla, isn't he? Nice and warm tone, but he's KEEPING IT SIMPLE (eh? eh?)

Both what? You have to be more specific.

I don't have to. You have the argument. Argue it.

In my heart I hope it hasn't come down to that.

Sure, but they aren't musicians. They are programmers/composers/arrangers. If the power goes out and you can't create music you can hear in the room you aren't a musician.

I claim my ten pounds.

Hevusa is worse than Hitler. Rockist asshole. Shame on you.

I like sampler/electronic based music just fine (Autechre and Aphex Twin ranks high for me). I just don't consider people that ONLY know how to program a sampler to be a musician. A sampler is not a musical instrument. I wouldn't consider myself an artist if I could only make collages.

Robert Rauschenberg didn't only do collages. People that ONLY do collages aren't artists anymore than someone who only programs a sampler is a musician.

you can play clarinet? sweet that is the instrument i have mastered. Actually I have been playing everyday lately.

Did you know the fingering on a clarinet is basically the same as an alto saxophone? So you could probably play one if you ever picked one up. Fun. (I play alto sax).

sorry to join in late and ask the obvious question- hevusa, unless it takes a nation of millions to hold us back has a real guitar solo then it is not music?
oh and your logic is failed because a record can be played without electricity. a theremin cannot.
and schumann was a pianist.
and, does that make every teenager with a de-tuned guitar a musician?

If Schumann played piano he was more than just a composer, he was a musician as well.

I fail to see what a hand cranked record player has to do with your point. Are you actually grasping at straws to the point that you think a DJ could spin records without electricity and make that feasible? hahaha. If you are that reinforces my point (if that and the theremin is the best you could do). How would the mixer in-between record players work without electricity?