yeah all these threads about homosex got me thinking

gay, isnt that such a great word?
say it with me
gay

sorry if you take offense

according to wikipedia
Gay can be used as a nonspecific derogatory comment towards a person or object. As a term of abuse it is widely used by adolescents.

When used with a derisive attitude (e.g. "that was so gay"), the term gay is pejorative. The derogatory implication here is that the object (or person) in question is "cheesy" or kitsch. This usage has its origins in the 1980s, when homosexuality had already become mainstream but was still taboo. Beginning in the 1990s and especially in the 2000s the usage became common among young people, who may or may not link the term to homosexuality.

I say it a lot. Probably too much.

I also like the word FAGGOT.

noise isnt art
but is art noise?

No.

Art and noise are both gay though.

is it, or is it not???

It most certainly is... and it changed the face of 20th century art.

art that doesn't involve self-expression is normally boring as hell though. or interesting in a purely technical or academic way, i.e. alvin lucier or that guy who's name i forget who hung a curtain down the centre of guggenheim. once the point has been made the work becomes irrelevent.

or this:

if the work, ie the cutain in the guggenheim is irrelevant why was it bought up in the topic? you have given it weight by using it to refernce your argument, hmmm paradoxical.

why would you be called a poser? we all have opinions and they are all valid.

Some people think AC-DC is art, I think its noise. Some people think John Cage is noise, I think it is art.

good thread about noise:
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/...page number=1

i didn't say it was irrelevent, i said it is boring. take for example Alvin Lucier's I Am Sitting In A Room, once you've heard that once there's no need to listen to it again as it is barely music and more just demonstrating a point about the physics of sound. And that's what that guy at the guggenheim (or maybe it was at MoMA) was doing, demonstrating a point about the use of gallery space. Once the point has been made what is interesting about a stripey curtain?

I was thinking more like Bach or Stravinsky. I don't think they're boring. I wasn't really talking about conceptual art, which I also find boring once I get the point they're making.

It seem's to me that the whole separation between art that is expressive or not or art that is EMOTIONALLY expressive or not is meaningless abstraction. The fact is that anything produced by an individual affects AND reflects ones environment or AUDIENCE if you call it that. Because identity is also reflected and informed in the same way. Since art is a cultural phenomenon it depends on defenition.

or maybe the point is being missed, like in Cage's 4'33 it is more about the audience experiencing a silence in which they may begin to think about and question things that they have not done previously, so this can be effective to numerous audiences and not just the one from the origianl performance.

Cage never intended 4'33 to be silence - audience noise, the sound of the performer doing things - that's what the piece sounds like. Coughing and rustling and whatnot.

But once you get the idea, there's no reason to listen to it more than once, or even once. It's conceptual, and boring as art, like T&B said. Cage wrote a lot of good actual music though.

who said somthing conceptual or intellectual is more pleasurable or valuable than an expression of self that is visceral or emotional?

once you know what an orgasm feels like there's no reason to have one again?

haha, i just find it awkward that anything man creates can be art. does this mean stop signs and traffic sings are art? or maybe they're not because they were not intened ot be art. but then if some takes of a photo of them, now they are art...

sure any symbol is an expression of something beyond the self and can be art. But it does depend on definition. A stop sign is a symbol but not necicarily art because the dominant definition of that symbol is one of utilitarianism which is not transcendance but acknowledgment of a neccesity for order. A stop sign is not generally created for its value "in and of itself" but by re-labeling it through an artistic lens, a stop sign can become a reflection on the frustrating nececity or banality of order, or any other countless things.

by silence i meant performance silence not environment silence, silence is only a concept on a planet with an atmosphere, and is something only those who have travelled into space have experienced, the clostest we can get is in an anaechoic chamber