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-   -   Is Trump really a serious contender for the Republican nomination? (http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?t=113183)

choc e-Claire 10.20.2019 02:44 AM

Right, now try and say that in a way that doesn't make you sound like some smartass Socrates wannabe.

demonrail666 10.20.2019 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Schunk

The reason I frequently refer to the America of a century ago is due to the regression which American society has undergone since about 1972, to the extent that today's American social reality resembles that of a century ago more than it resembles that of fifty years ago. I frequently read Comrade Victor Berger's century-old editorials in the Socialist newspaper "The Milwaukee Leader" (published as a book entitled: "Berger's Broadsides") because they speak to the century-old social reality into which the American ruling class has plunged us in the last 50 years.

The Democratic Party's solution to this social crisis is to mystify class conflict by confounding it with racial, religious, sexual and whatnot conflict in order to isolate the working class amidst a sea of petit-bourgois and lumpenproletarian elements who present themselves as "oppressed" rebels against the current unjust social order while hoping nobody notices that the government, the military, academia, the corporate media, and every other instrument of ruling-class power is concertedly supporting the controlled "rebellion".

It's a cute trick if you can get away with it. I see my job as making sure they can't and won't get away with it.


You're right about this new 'woke' Left representing a kind of controlled rebellion but, given that industrialisation was the very thing that gave Marx's concept of class any real meaning, do you (as a self-proclaimed Marxist) really think that class, and especially class-conflict, is a viable idea within the context of an increasingly de-industrialised West? After all, many of those we'd traditionally consider working class moved away from the very kind of manual and manufacturing jobs that Marx saw as key to their revolutionary potential towards a very different kind of employment: within the service industries, or in white collar jobs, or in many cases continuing in manual or manufacturing work, but as their own bosses. Nor should we forget those made unemployed as a consequence of de-industrialisation, who became part of the lumpenproletariat as a result.

These people (whatever we want to call them) definitely deserve far better political representation than I currently see them getting from the 'woke'/'progressive' Left but I'm no longer sure that an emphasis on class, especially in terms of Marx's rather narrow and historically-defined concept of it, is particularly helpful to them either right now.

!@#$%! 10.20.2019 10:28 AM

class without accounting for race?

this is what happens when you’re middle class, even upper middle class, and black in america

http://powerreporting.com/color/color_of_money.pdf

h8kurdt 10.20.2019 01:47 PM


And Bernie had 25,000 people turn up to his rally in Queens yesterday :rolleyes:

Many such numbers

ilduclo 10.20.2019 02:35 PM

so math

5,500 people, population of 193k = 2.8% turnout (Beto)
25k people, pop 8.6 million =0.29% turnout (Sanders) (thanks for the QC, Claire!)
20k people, pop 1.34 million = 1.0% turnout (Trimp)

Beto 3x more popular than Trimp, 10x more popular than Sanders

put that in your trunk, Shunk!

choc e-Claire 10.20.2019 03:58 PM

You've got an extra 0 in the Sanders figure, but it's pretty good otherwise

ilduclo 10.20.2019 04:15 PM

yup, corrected!

!@#$%! 10.20.2019 04:43 PM

dallas population is underestimated above

sure city limits is correct, but dallas-fort worth metro, which is the real demographic, has 7.5+ million

mango 0.33%

demonrail666 10.20.2019 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
class without accounting for race?

this is what happens when you’re middle class, even upper middle class, and black in america

http://powerreporting.com/color/color_of_money.pdf


I do think that the issue of race remains a particular problem for the American Left. Especially any version that wants to hold on to a specifically Marxist concept of class. I recently came back from Miami. Yeah there's the massive divide between rich and poor but what struck me far more was the seemingly unfathomable 4D complexity of its racial tensions and how they appeared to transcend any easy notion of economic disparity or class conflict. I'm not sure what kind of politics is needed for a city like that, tbh.

!@#$%! 10.20.2019 07:03 PM

ah, miami! hahahahaa... the capital of latin america. everyone does business and brings their regional prejudices there.

the political solution is... just more fucking. i mean it in the hybridizing crosspollinating way. capulets and montagues without the suicide. viva el caos primordial!

 

tw2113 10.20.2019 11:17 PM

Fuck The Systems. Grab Your Ky Jelly Cause They Coming For You.

ilduclo 10.21.2019 01:25 PM

 

ilduclo 10.21.2019 01:27 PM

"Saudi Arabia at my request has agreed to pay us for everything we are doing. That is a first. Saudi Arabia, and other countries soon now, but Saudi Arabia has agreed to pay us for everything we are doing to help them and we appreciate that."
 

Bytor Peltor 10.21.2019 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h8kurdt
Clinton email investigation ends

Now Bytor can really shush about it. It's over.



Honestly, h8kurdt, my confusion grows: no “deliberate” mishandling

If my understanding of the law is correct, it specifically states that intent is irrelevant.

If this is true, please understand that you or anyone else reading this would be going to prison for doing anything similar.

THIS is why I questioned the possibility of then President Obama granting immunity to Hillary the same way he did her attorney. If immunity was granted, there is no way Hillary could be prosecuted.

If intent is indeed irrelevant, then Hillary is receiving special treatment!
(don’t forget removing SIM cards & destroying cellphones after receiving subpoena)

If immunity was granted, as I’ve stated previously, I would consider that treasonous.

I was questioning possible traitorous activity based on actions and NOT skin tone or proper names.

Quote:

Originally Posted by h8kurdt
So why start after his terms were over?


Because all of President Obama’s questionable actions took place in his final months-weeks-days & hours of office. Hillary’s attorney didn’t reveal the status of her immunity until she testified under oath earlier this year.

guest 10.21.2019 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

If my understanding of the law is correct, it specifically states that intent is irrelevant.

If this is true, please understand that you or anyone else reading this would be going to prison for doing anything similar.

your "understanding of the law" fucking lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
I was questioning possible traitorous activity based on actions and NOT skin tone or proper names.

so it's just coincidence that the subjects of your ire are always women or minorities?

Bytor Peltor 10.22.2019 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guest
your "understanding of the law"


Tiered Justice is BOLD and THOROUGH injustice!!!

Possibly you can comprehend this......the next time you get pulled over for speeding, tell the officer you didn’t “intend” to speed and see how works out.

Bytor Peltor 10.22.2019 07:29 AM

Hot Damn Candace

 

ilduclo 10.22.2019 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
dallas population is underestimated above

sure city limits is correct, but dallas-fort worth metro, which is the real demographic, has 7.5+ million

mango 0.33%


Yeah, I just googled the pop, not accounting for the spread out territory associated with TX cities (lack of land use laws)

So Trimpy even worse, works for me. He’s gonna lose
:D

h8kurdt 10.22.2019 12:14 PM

Trump comparing what he's going through as a "lynching" is something else. I mean, I should be shocked but I'm not. At all.

Has there ever been a more whiny, moaning, pathetic snowflake president in history?

tw2113 10.22.2019 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h8kurdt
Trump comparing what he's going through as a "lynching" is something else. I mean, I should be shocked but I'm not. At all.

Has there ever been a more whiny, moaning, pathetic snowflake president in history?



Probably not, at least publicly.

h8kurdt 10.23.2019 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Schunk
If you live in Britain (which is the impression I get (kindly correct me if I'm wrong)) , you may not understand the full extent to which the United States has been deindustrialized. The entire reason behind this wholesale overseas export of the US industrial infrastructure is the desire to evade the natural combativeness of the American working class; in other words, the conversion of the American proletariat into lumpenproletariat was precisely the aim. The Trump Administration is attempting, through its "America First" policy, to re-industrialize the US, thus breathing new life into the American proletariat.

In other words, American anti-globalism is domestic class conflict on a global scale, and President Trump is on the right side of history to that extent.


And by re-industrialise you mean go back to building fossil fuel factories? In that sense then he's on the wrong side of history.

choc e-Claire 10.23.2019 03:35 AM

Well done h8kurdt, you broke him.

choc e-Claire 10.23.2019 03:42 AM

Eh, because I've got nothing better to do: isn't moving to a post-fossil fuel society the better thing to do anyway? When we do rapidly move to renewable energy, and it turns out that we were wrong on climate change...how is it a bad thing?

choc e-Claire 10.23.2019 04:20 AM

Yeah, carbon capture technology is no doubt cool and helpful and could save us all. But, like - fossil fuel's going to keep adding carbon, and we'd have to keep capturing it.

This will absolutely get us some way back to climate equilibrium. And renewables would keep us there much better than recapturing carbon.

h8kurdt 10.23.2019 04:27 AM

Or you could look to the American cities and cities around the world that are getting most of their energy from renewable sources* and realise that shutting coal factories isn't the equivalent of throwing people out onto the streets. Accept fossil fuels and) is quickly becoming replaced by renewable energy. The people who still cling onto it (I'm including Trump and his lobbyist pals) are looking like relics

Funny how the Republicans favourite Republican Regan had a big hand in helping companies shut factories down and outsource to the very countries Republicans are now riling against.

You think you're championing the working class because you're blinkered by Trump's empty words.

*More than a hundred and rising

h8kurdt 10.23.2019 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Schunk
You're only right! Yet, were I yet a pro-Trump fascist, I might be so fascistically bold as to suggest that both strategies might work well when applied together. But, as I am now thoroughly woke, we must adopt your solution immediately and entirely!


Even if Trump has shown no intention of doing that?

h8kurdt 10.23.2019 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Schunk
Hey. I'm no longer a Trump supporter, so why should I care about what he intends to do on that issue?

(Oh, boy, is this ever fun!!!)


It's about as witty and funny as a SNL sketch. Carry on if it humours you though.

!@#$%! 10.23.2019 08:19 AM

drunkle bob’s comedy hour is presented to you by listerine

ilduclo 10.23.2019 12:37 PM

Republicans storm secure room, delaying Pentagon official's impeachment deposition
Laura Cooper was expected to face questions about the Trump administration's decision to temporarily withhold military assistance to Ukraine over the summer.



https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/tru...nD_cvnRZG8oP4k

martygraham 10.23.2019 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blunderbuss
Or are the UK media just concentrating on him because we've heard of him and he makes good headlines?

The thought of him as US president is pretty scary. Could it happen?


Just saw this now and it really has come full circle hasn't it..scary times but hopeful for better times ahead.

!@#$%! 10.23.2019 01:58 PM

the sex doll ads in the profile do reek of spam...

Bytor Peltor 10.26.2019 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
Multiple occasions I questioned if he might be proven a traitor.



Trump accuses Obama of treason for ‘spying’ on his 2016 campaign

choc e-Claire 10.26.2019 03:57 AM

I'm sorry, but - the US president keeping tabs on his potential (and eventual) successor? The 'traitor' thing would be to ignore it and just mentally check out for the last year of his presidency.

Speaking of...will be mildly interesting/vaguely horrifying to see what Trump does between November 4, 2020 and January 20, 2021.
(Or, [heaven forbid] November 6, 2024 and January 20, 2025.)

choc e-Claire 10.26.2019 04:25 AM

Oh, and (as far as I'm aware) Obama never sent the Secret Service to investigate a rapper - like Trump has done with Eminem, after being alerted by a TMZ employee.

Sources: Buzzfeed News (original story), The Guardian (corroborating story), FOIA documents (obtained for Buzzfeed)

Bytor Peltor 10.26.2019 04:51 AM

”unlike the inspector general, is a federal prosecutor with the ability to convene a grand jury“

—POWER OF SUBPOENA—

This next week is going to be awesome!!!



April 22, 2018
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
C) Special Counsels are appointed to persu KNOWN CRIMES and NOT to go seeking after “possible” crimes......technically, seeking crimes is a violation of Special Counsel laws.


May 18, 2018
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
We have a Judge in Virginia cracking the judicial whip at the Department Of Justice demanding to know what the DOJ is up to because they are soooooo outside the scope of what they are authorized to investigate......me, myself and I consider what they are doing a Witch Hunt.

So two plus years and millions later and Muller is growing tired of being worked over by the judicial whip......the investigation is dead in the water and Muller is so desperate, his team makes contact with Rudy Giuliani to confirm that a sitting President cannot be indicted.

Didn’t Bill Clinton teach us that 20 years ago?



May 18, 2018
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
Symbols, I admire your willingness to wait, it’s all we can do.

All I’m pointing out is so far there is no evidence that the Trump campaign colluded.

Evidently Congress has information that Russia colluded with someone?? Guess what, they probably did.

The question is, who???

President Obama

Hillary Clinton or her campaign

Anyone else??????

All we know so far is there is not one single shred of evidence linking President Trump or his campaign.



June 7, 2018
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
Robert Mueller has requested that witnesses turn in their private cellphones as he wants to search any encrypted messaging programs.

A request is not the same as a subpoena!

What would happen if any of these witnesses destroyed their private cell phone in the same manner as Hillary Clinton?

Is their a Two-Tier Justice System??

Is it possible Robert Mueller wants the private cellphones so evidence can be implanted?

I’m surprised no one here hasn't asked why President Donald Trump hasn’t overturned Executive Order 12333???

Could it be our President will use this Executive Order to??????


July 14, 2018

!@#$%! 10.26.2019 06:57 AM

lmfao bytor talking to itself again cuz nobody likes him

Bytor Peltor 10.26.2019 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
lmfao bytor talking to itself again cuz nobody likes him


Silly Juvenile, I’m not talking to myself......just a reminder of what I was pointing out over a year and a half ago.

My narrative and purpose hasn’t changed!!

Pointing out that Special Counsels are appointed to pursue known crimes and NOT to seek after possible crimes.

Understanding the DOJ was soooooo outside the scope of what they were authorized to investigate.

I knew then the chickens would eventually come home to roost.

In May 2018 I questioned if it was Obama, Hillary or her campaign who colluded with Russia? Not because I have hate towards DEMS, because I could clearly see what they were doing was wrong.

YES - eventually questioning if Obama’s actions were treasonous?

On June 7, 2018 I questioned why President Trump didn’t overturn Executive Order 12333?

“ FISA is a statute, so you’d need congressional action to change those rules, and you have a built-in check there. But 12333 is not constrained by statute; it’s constrained by executive order.”

Personally, I believe President Trump has known for a long time what deceptive extremes were taken to spy on him and his campaign.

No reason to kill the Mueller Report when you know it will prove you didn’t collude with Russia......and you know that the investigation into FISA, Mueller and Executive Order 12333 will reveal that President Obama used his position and influence to help Hillary Clinton win an election by colluding with Russia just so they might stand a chance against an Orange Cheeto who never held a public office.

The cherry on top of this EPIC FAIL will be people going to prison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor


!@#$%! 10.26.2019 04:31 PM

silly senile still talking to himself cuz still nobody likes him xD

Bytor Peltor 10.27.2019 01:07 AM

Shifty Schiff Tries Buffalo Wings For The First Time

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
DEMS rehearsing for the debates:

 


!@#$%! 10.27.2019 01:56 AM

and again


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