i find this thread to be offensively stupid and no one is complaining.

spinning!..out.. of.. control. ( if i am insane, it's b/c of these clowns)

*Eats popcorn

You want to nip outside for a fag? A smoke or a rent-boy, your call...

I'll go out there with ya for some fresh air, but I actually quit smoking a few months ago.

khchris leave atari alone.He is my mum

Mum don't worry.Hold my hand and we will go through this difficult thread together.....

Much to my surprise, it does appear that there is a plan being proposed. President Bush actually* presented an organized, well-thought-out policy tonight during his address.

We'll see if the plan can or will be executed or not or if it's just hot air purely designed to help his poll numbers.

* & oh yeah, the "actually" is well-deserved, based on the incompetent leadership the American people have been getting from this administration.

excerpts
http://www.forbes.com/entrepreneurs/...ap2747812.html

o brother. look at this. i'd suggest starting a new thread on the subject instead of refloating this gigantic turd, as all seems lost here. i mean, i think this thing would induce either hives, or the gag reflex, on most people. both things for me. i need benadryl, and some ginger. :D

I dont think it needs to go on. If I chose a winner Id go with atari, hes backed himself up with a ton of info and proven opinions. Also because I feel the same way, I dont think any more explanation is needed, just go through the thread. Unlike others who repeat them selves and attack an entire subject with a single sentence of wise ass remarks, if even that.
Oh well.

atari has some good things to say, so he should post them in a more dignified setting, is my point. capisce?

Yes, I agree. Although I think there is nothing more to say on the matter. I may be wrong of course.
What is capisce?

some mafioso-wannabe vocabulary i occasionally affect :D

look it up on wikipedia (bastardized italian)

Ah well, I see. I still dont know how to pronounce it though.

Even though the title has "friggens" in it as a modifier, & even though this thread has been a horrible train wreck, I felt that news of Bush's address should go in the thread were we (some of us) were discussing the issue.

I don't like agreeing with the President whose administration has made so many egregious errors both bloody & costly just to fatten their bank accounts, but the fact is that the plan tonight as presented (at least) sounded very reasonable.

Excerpts of President Bush's address Monday night on immigration, as released by the White House.



On Bush's ideas for immigration overhaul:

"We are a nation of laws, and we must enforce our laws. We are also a nation of immigrants, and we must uphold that tradition, which has strengthened our country in so many ways. These are not contradictory goals. America can be a lawful society and a welcoming society at the same time. We will fix the problems created by illegal immigration, and we will deliver a system that is secure, orderly, and fair."



On border security:

"Since I became president, we have increased funding for border security by 66 percent and expanded the Border Patrol from about 9,000 to 12,000 agents. ... We have apprehended and sent home about 6 million people entering America illegally.

"Despite this progress, we do not yet have full control of the border, and I am determined to change that. Tonight I am calling on Congress to provide funding for dramatic improvements in manpower and technology at the border."



On a temporary worker program:

"The reality is that there are many people on the other side of our border who will do anything to come to America to work and build a better life. They walk across miles of desert in the summer heat, or hide in the back of 18-wheelers to reach our country. This creates enormous pressure on our border that walls and patrols alone will not stop. To secure the border effectively we must reduce the numbers of people trying to sneak across."



On enforcement:

"We need to hold employers to account for the workers they hire. It is against the law to hire someone who is in this country illegally. Yet businesses often cannot verify the legal status of their employees because of the widespread problem of document fraud. Therefore, comprehensive immigration reform must include a better system for verifying documents and work eligibility. ...

"A tamper-proof card would help us enforce the law and leave employers with no excuse for violating it. And by making it harder for illegal immigrants to find work in our country, we would discourage people from crossing the border illegally in the first place."



On amnesty:

"We must face the reality that millions of illegal immigrants are already here. They should not be given an automatic path to citizenship. This is amnesty, and I oppose it. Amnesty would be unfair to those who are here lawfully and it would invite further waves of illegal immigration."



On assimilation:

"We must honor the great American tradition of the melting pot, which has made us one nation out of many peoples. The success of our country depends upon helping newcomers assimilate into our society, and embrace our common identity as Americans. Americans are bound together by our shared ideals, an appreciation of our history, respect for the flag we fly, and an ability to speak and write the English language."



On the tone of the debate: ("debate"? isn't that supposed to be "address"?)

"We must always remember that real lives will be affected by our debates and decisions, and that every human being has dignity and value no matter what their citizenship papers say."
http://www.forbes.com/entrepreneurs/...ap2747812.html

atari: well sorry bro, don't count me as a deserter, but too much benadryl makes me sleepy. i respect my senses & so i can't keep looking at this trainwreck that was. best wishes w/ the floater & a happy ride if one is possible. /me tips hat off.

rhys: kinda like "capeesh"-- ha hah--

Sounds about right. Has he spoken yet?

on second thought, the whole thing is just a mess & i wouldn't send any additional nat'l guard troops to the border although it appears as if that part of the plan will most definitely happen. The main thing that needs to be addressed is the american employers that enable immigrants to stay illegal in this country. the gov't should simply do site inspections based on complaints to enforce the existing laws.

Yes, Yes to all of your questions.

Do I win the thread prize now?