Now I am listened all three first Minutemen-albums. Well, Double Nickels is of course also good, but not as great as those two other. It´s like they lost some of their "madness" they have in What makes a man. Specially Boon´s voice doesn´t have same power. There are great songs like Nature Without Man, God Bows to Math, the Politics of Time. Also really love their CCR-cover. This album also not of course sounds mainstream, but I think it is any way much more straightforward than it´s predecessors. I don´t understand why they changed into that direction. I don´t also know their life´s situation that time, maybe they were tired of tours when making that record?

Also listened Revisited first time in my life as whole (can you imagine). Yes, I think there are something same even Revisited is better. Also White Album came into my mind, maybe because they both have lots of different material (which I think is a good in double albums, you don´t get bored).

I think it´s little bit wrong to call Minutemen just hardcore punk band, because I think it´s much more. Maybe this is only in Finland, but here hardcore punk means nowdays just that punk where every song is played with that uptempo beat. And singer really not sing. At first that term was also here just meaning of punk that is more extreme than normal punk. There was hardcore scene in Finland also in the beginning of eighties, but I prefer only Terveet Kädet & Kansanturvamusiikkikomissio from that. Latter was the only one, who was something else than that uptempo punk. Here´s piece from them (I think you can hear influences from Birthday Party):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGJiYg5IoMM

if you like the Minutemen then check out Saccharine Trust. sort along the same lines expect the lyrics are weird and some sort of slam poetry thingy. Surviving You Always is the best, to me. sometimes Kim sounds like the singer of this band.

haven't heard the Minutemen in a long time. but they were something back in the day for me and all the other SST bands, only because I didn't know I could order albums from the local record store, and had catalogs from SSt, Touch and Go. so I was loaded on Big black, Meat Puppets, black flag blah blah blah vinyl. for all I cared my other peers could suck on their Sublime, no doubt, and Smashing Plunckhead discs.

Yeah, def check out Meat Puppets too if you like Minutemen. Totally different sounds for the most part, but both bands did some interesting variations on classic rock guitar sounds.

Also, ever listen to the Wipers, Mortte?

No. Black Flag is the only one I think I´ve heard a little. I don´t know why but Henry Rollins irritates me, specially in his solo career. He´s of course great guy and has an attitude and blahblah. Anyway I am going to check also Black Flag, because I´ve got also wrong picture of Minutemen (just because I hadn´t heard those great first albums). I am really glad I have now five weeks Holiday, so time to listen all great music!

This day I am going to spend all the great sixties/seventies wonders I have recently found like Kinks, Blossom Toes, Family & Fairport Convention albums. Finally I am going to listen Dylan´s Freewheelin as a whole too. Also I am going to listen some Pussy Galore again.

One band that came to my mind from Minutemen is Trumans Water from the nineties. Of course they´re not as great as their skills and not have as strong bass sound, but I think both have continued Beefheart´s tradition in a very great, interesting way.

^^uh, wait wait what???.... did anyone recommend the Our Band Could Be Your Life Book???/ you acted like HUH?!?!?! ok, an English barrier.

heard a little of black flag?, first time hearing highway 61 revisited, and minutemen?!?! and...and never heard The Wipers...?????? but loves Nomeansno and Fugazi?

as much classic rock love you spew here and yr now just going to hear The Freewheeling by BD?

no, sorry. I don't believe it. you're pulling our leg?!

and you needled me for hating Pink Floyd? Finland is a weird country.

no offence because it seems to be true. btw. Sugar Shit Sharp is the only Pussy Galore you need.

have to shit out ~15k words by this time next week and am entering into a state of total psychosis

breakdown is the greatest song of all time

I Think you should read the earlier posts in this thread if you really want to know, why Minutemen, Black Flag etc. are not my everyday basic porridge as it seems to be most here.

Pink Floyd has always been much more important to me than Dylan (and still is). As a young I didn´t like Dylan at all (I don´t think I am the only oné in the world). Maybe at the age of seventeen or eighteen I recorded Desire on cassette. That was long time the only Dylan album I listened. Last year I bought my first Dylan-vinyl (Bringing it on home). I have now been quite interested at him, but I don´t believe I will become ever a big fan.

I have always listened music that I´ve been interested at the moment. Never thought there are records I´ve must hear. It´s great if you have heard all the rock classics (I really hope you have listened the Piper at the Gates Of Dawn). I am really glad there are still great records I haven´t heard before.

I LOVE Pussy Galore! I need all their material!

You´re right, Finland is weird country. And I am weird guy.

What's the most famous Finnish band of all time?

Very hard to say. If I say something, I think there will be someone with totally different opinion. Also there are any bands like Stones who has as long career although some bands have made reunions. If thinking worldwide I think it would be Nightwish or H.I.M. (don´t like both at all). I think some finns would say Eppu Normaali (very popular in the end of seventies, at the eighties and even nineties). But what´s the best I say Wigwam. They were active 1969-1978, then made reunion in the nineties, made three albums in 2000`s. And last year become the only all-time member Jim Pembroke solo If the Rain comes which I think is not a bad album at all.

i thought you were gonna say the leningrad cowboys ha ha ha ha

i love kaurismäki

:) Nice to hear. Rocky VII (or whatever it is) is really great!

Wait, wait - remember that Black Flag existed for years before Rollins came on board, and that Greg Ginn was really the closest thing the band had to a consistent creative director.

So don't let your opinion of Henry Rollins form your opinion of Black Flag. Check out the Process of Weeding Out (instrumental album), and Nervous Breakdown (debut EP from '78 with Keith Morris of Circle Jerks handling vocal duties, years before Rollins started playing with the group a la Damaged.)

Really, I say Minutement were the ultimate hardcore band because of how immensely talented and influential they were. In many ways they were as singular and inimitable as Sonic Youth. But Black Flag were equally adventurous, with musical aspirations that went way beyond the restrictions of hardcore. They were challenging, and heavy, and eclectic, influenced by metal, jazz, punk and noise. They were so much more than just "That band Henry Rollins used to be in."

Dude, I hate to beat a dead horse here, but if you're really digging on Monutemen and want more "old" music to investigate, then reading Our Band Could Be Your Life might be just the thing for you. The book is fairly limited in scope because it only gives proper chapters to American bands, and focuses almost exclusively on their indie years, glossing over the successes some of the bands had after signing onto a major. But it will definitely give you reasons to check out these bands once you read about how into bands like CCR many of these groups were.

Chalk it up to the limited exposure. I get it. I have friends from Japan, Bulgaria, Israel, Iran... most of them have similar things going on.

But I would like to know how those essential Dylan albums were missed. That's just weird.

I already answered Rebecca about my musical relationship to Dylan, but if you aren´t read or understand it here´s another reply. Of course I have seen Dylan´s Freewheelin already in the eighties in the shops in Finland and read about it´s importance to the popular music (also other Dylan´s albums). I don´t remember was it in my home villages library (It´s possible it was, there were many great rock classics like Led Zeppelin I, Dark Side Of the Moon etc.) I think it was his nasal voice I didn´t like at all, so one my friend recommend me Desire (because he´s singing better in it). Now he´s voice sounds really great to me, I think he can express so much in it.

It´s just I haven´t been interested in music that I don´t interest at the moment, not even GOD himself would have made it (well maybe even I in that case have so much curiosity that I have to listen it).

About that book you so many have recommend me, it seems it hasn´t translated to Finnish. I am very slow reader also in Finnish, so it will takes at least a year to read a book in English. BTW I am now reading first time in my life Kerouc On the road, the original version (maybe it´s the next thing you can wonder), after that I am going to read second time Burroughs Naked Lunch (read it I think almost twenty years ago).

About another great man, here in Finland was yesterday three hours radio program about John Fogerty (cause he had 70 years birthday party last week). It was so great to listen, when they played I put the Spell On you, I really got shivers!

And about great books, John Fogerty is going to publish a book about his life in autumn (hope it will come in Finnish too), Johnny Winter book is soon coming also in Finnish.

ha ha ha ha same exact thing here

im a non-native english speaker so he does very little for me

i understand his genius is his poetry or whatever but i'm like -- eh

i like his music much better when someone covers it -- like the rolling stones or cat power or nina simone or hendrix

except for mr tambourine man which is shit in all versions. oh and blowin in the fucking wind which is a catholic church song in spanish (i swear-- i fucking hate it--fucking singing priests ruined it for me)

great songwriter-- let someone else sing

Hendrix All Along is still better than Dylan´s! But I listened the original version some while ago (it was long time when I had heard it before, didn´t like it all) and I have to say it also hit me. I think the whole John Wesley Harding is one of his greatest albums and also the Basement Tapes from the same time (I have always loved the Band, so maybe that´s one reason). I really love the Byrds Mr. Tambourine Man, but I have to admit the original version is better (it hits me too when I heard it long time ago last year, when I bought Bringing it all).

Here´s one horrible Finnish version from Blowin in the wind (I think I´ve heard even more horrible, but maybe as a reason it wasn´t in YouTube):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX9jJVwxzbE

This is a great version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHAvr2oL1q4

Actually it is totally different song with also different Finnish lyrics, only the song title is same in Finnish, but they made an english version of it where are Dylan´s lyrics.

Uhh ... yeah, I think it must be a language thing. Dylan's certainly not Celine Dion, but that's a good thing. His voice has an immediacy and honesty to it that really hits people hard. I have trouble listening to any of his early acoustic songs, because I have a hard time holding it together.

I think it's a bit like Kurt Cobain's singing in that sense. Surely there are a ton of people who think he couldn't sing for shit, and I can see why they might feel that way. But if he grabs you he grabs you hard, and the same is true of Dylan.

Hey, not everyone's lucky enough to be Billy Corgan. Am I right?

I love On The Road. Love it. Read it at the perfect age. Changed me.

But in all honesty, it's defies just about every literary rule in the book, and the end result is, believe it or not, difficult for a lot of people to get through.

If you can read On the Road, or Naked Lunch, then I'm pretty sure you could read the comparatively simple Our Band Could Be Your Life. Honestly. It's not the least bit challenging. It just tells some stories. Maybe some day give it a shot, and see how it goes. It's a chapter by chapter book, so you could just check out the Sonic Youth chapter, or the Minutemen chapter, and see how you do.

you feel that way about Dylan too? he's the only singer I can think of that simultaneously makes me want to burst out crying and feel like I can punch thru a brick wall. yes, there's a toughness there that very few can articulate that way. Kurt was kinda like that but maybe more blissed out and angry. im happy to indulge in some Bob love!!!

ha, billy corgan...'killer in me is the killer in you".... ALDFJDAAHHHFuck youuuu!!! hehe.

Neil Young does this for me.

Oh, yeah. You don't wanna put on "Times They are a-Changin" when I'm in the room. I'll get real weird with it. Sing every verse with vigor and gusto, assuming alternating roles of revolutionary zealot and lovesick poet.

My mouth will do that quivery thing that happens when when people are on the verge of balling, and I won't let you enjoy a moment of the song because it's all for me!

Then I'll be sad. And retire to my bedchamber to have a solitary cry over a whiskey glass.

I even cry during the opening credits of Watchmen, one of the worst films ever made? Why? Cuz Dylan and stuff.

It's bloody LIFE music!!

All this made me want to hear Bob's sweeter voice, so I'm currently spinning New Morning, which I haven't heard in maybe 15 years. It's so much better than I remembered. I don't think I hear a bad song. Maybe the younger me wasn't charmed by Bob clearly having fun.

Here's "Sign on the Window," and while I'll never confuse him with Ray Charles, there's nothing wrong with this "soul" vocal performance and so much that's right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKZeyeTeAbE

...Damn, this is a good record. "Day of the Locusts," "Went to see the Gypsy," the charming waltz "Winterlude," other surprises.

And I think it does take age and maturity to see the beauty in lines I once considered trite.

"So happy just to see you smile, underneath the sky of blue, on this new morning, with you."

Hell yeah. I mean, what else is there? It takes guts and genius to pull off a line like this. And Dylan does, therefore...

there's some neuroscience demonstration that a native speaker hears words first and music second whereas furrners hear music first. it's how the brain gets wired. i mention this often because it explains a lot about how certain great artists are either unexportable or greatly diminished outside their contexts.

for me nirvana was first and foremost about the drums. true story.

same as the police, btw. i couldn't give 2 shits about sting's pointless meowing but stewart copeland hell yeah.

Nirvana was and is and always will be foremost about the BASS

Did you see Dylan singing "The Night We Called I A Day" on Letterman?

https://youtu.be/u_djZiswcrQ

I didn't think anyone listened to the words. For me, it usually takes two or three listens before I begin to wonder what all the noise is about.

--

Now Planet Waves. This kind of sucks. Like I remembered. Way to go Bob.

you play the cello so it's probably in a similar range but my favorite rock & jazz instrument is(are?) definitely the drums. nothing else gets me going like the drums.

later on when i discoverd the melvins i realized "so this is where grohl learned from!"

i would love to learn to play the drums but i'm a complete spastic.

Very interesting theory! But like Evollove, it´s hard to me hear even Finnish lyrics. I have to have written lyrics with me when I am listening, that´s the only way to me understand them. And always music has been much more important than lyrics to me. Also there has been any language that I can´t listen.

About Dylan´s voice, it´s very funny, but now I love his voice. I think it´s really meditative, last night I finally listened Freewheelin`, even my restless children & their cousins who are spending now some time with us calm down.

About Wipers, Meat Puppets, Saccharine Trust & Black Flag. I really love Wipers & Meat Puppets! Wipers reminds me - SY! Like Cobain and the many others and think they´re also listened it a lot, although they not sounded like them in 1983 when Over the edge is made, but really sounded like them later. Meat Puppets reminds me Dead Moon that came later, at least vocals have something same. I think Meat Puppets have very little to do with hardcore, much more sixties/seventies stuff, but really in a great and genius way. Going to listen these both more!

With Meat Puppets there are mentioned also Gun Club & Violent Femmes. I have loved Gun Club already long time, Violent Femmes was in Finland I think end of eighties or begin of nineties. I listened some years after that gig some of their albums. I remembered them ok, but not great. Does somebody now them some stuff that´s worth of listening?

Saccharine Trust was ok. First I think Surving You, Always is quite boring, really don´t like the vocalists at all, but in the middle of the album there happened something really interesting (they started jazzy/hippy jams). Also really props to them about great Doors cover, first I really have to think what cover this is!

I`ve got the right picture of Black Flag. It´s really not my beef at all. If I want to listen same kind of music, I rather listen Bad Brains or Voivod (I think Voivod do heavish prog lot better than Black Flag trying to do it in Slip it in).

Severian, On the Road & Naked Lunch are translated into Finnish! :) If I tried them English, I think I would have to go to the mental institution :confused: But yes, I will watch does our town´s library have that book & try to read at least SY-chapter (really hope they will translate some book about SY)

Wait, we feel THE EXACT same way about Dylan?? Ive never been able to sit through Dylan doing his own music yet ive never heard a Dylan cover i didn't like..

Meat Puppets are gloriously under rated

Kinski, good old PNW psychedelic.

If I care enough or I'm curious enough, I'll look up words I don't entirely understand.

But that's because lyrics are important to me. This is why Planet Waves is kind of crappy. The music's fine for the most part, but Bob's words are mostly mediocre and sometimes really bad, which really diminishes the whole thing for me.

I'm guessing lyrics are sort of important for everyone, to some extent. No one has ever put on a Nazi hate rock album for me and said, "Yeah, I know. But ignore the words and just enjoy the catchy tunes." Some lyrics can ruin everything.

wow!!! this made my day!!!

There are a number of studies that demonstrate this and other neuro-linguistic phenomena relating to how your native language shapes the way you process and create information. It's pretty interesting, especially when you get into Chomsky's linguistic theories of culture, and the seemingly innate ability of children born in Zimbabwe to recognize and sounds that a non-native speaker of that language is by even physically capable of producing or hearing.

What does it all mean, Mr. Natural?



More relevant, perhaps, to the subject at hand is the cocktail party effect and other studies into language and attention.

It makes sense that a non-native English speaker would be more likely to attend to rhythm, melody, and other universal musical components than to words in a secndary language. Plenty of big fat opportunities for cool research here, if you ask me.

[/nerd]

Yeah, I saw this last week. Damn good.


Why, I wonder, does David Letterman love the fucking Foo Fighters so much? I can't imagine they're really his favorite band. I can't imagine that he sits around groovin to x-static or watershed while he's hanging out at home.

"Everlong" is such a crap song. The one from the Colour & he Shape era (the last FF album that I actually listened to more than once) was always "My Hero." I still love that song, even though it's alt-radio Rock to the core. It's just a really powerful, kickass song that makes me think of Kurt Cobain, whether that's the point or not.

Video was excellent as well. But Everlong? Boring.

I think they're just ok too. thought you might get a kick out of the more jazzy side to them. they took it a little further than the Minutemen, who had more funky stuff, than jazzy, you know. glad you checked them out.

btw, I listened to the Minutemen for the first time in ages and have to say they're just as good as ever. no-frills rock band that doesn't care if no one is hearing it. truly independent. without a care in the world.